David Stockman on The Ukrainian Border War Folly (Including a detailed history of the area now called Ukraine)
Posted by freedomforall 10 months, 1 week ago to Politics
Excerpt:
"Someone should tell the European ruling elites to take a long jump off a short pier. Their endless whining about the Ruuskies and Putin is just plain pathetic because—
- It’s not justified—Russia bears no hallmarks of an expansionist imperial power.
- The Russia-Ukraine conflict is none of western Europe’s business—since its essentially a territorial and civil war within the borders of historic Russia.
- If EU officialdom is really concerned about the purported Russian threat why do they spend just a pittance of their GDP on defense?
Yet, here we have Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, former German defense minister and full-throated war-hawk, talking absolute nonsense:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to see empires and autocracies back in Europe, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told the European Economic Congress in Katowice.
Speaking alongside Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, von der Leyen insisted that she stands for a European Union that is ready to do whatever it takes to protect Europe, and especially Ukraine.
“Putin’s war is about redrawing the map of Europe, but it is also a war on our Union and on the entire global rules-based system,” she said.”
Well, that’s rubbish if there ever was such. The only time the borders of Ukraine have been redrawn at the barrel of a gun is when Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev did it between 1922 and 1954. That’s right, this bureaucratic half-wit wants to embroil the world in WWIII in order to enforce borders drawn by a trio if history’s most blood-thirsty tyrants.
As explained below, there never was a country even remotely resembling modern Ukraine until the Soviet communists decreed its existence. "
"Someone should tell the European ruling elites to take a long jump off a short pier. Their endless whining about the Ruuskies and Putin is just plain pathetic because—
- It’s not justified—Russia bears no hallmarks of an expansionist imperial power.
- The Russia-Ukraine conflict is none of western Europe’s business—since its essentially a territorial and civil war within the borders of historic Russia.
- If EU officialdom is really concerned about the purported Russian threat why do they spend just a pittance of their GDP on defense?
Yet, here we have Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, former German defense minister and full-throated war-hawk, talking absolute nonsense:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to see empires and autocracies back in Europe, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told the European Economic Congress in Katowice.
Speaking alongside Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, von der Leyen insisted that she stands for a European Union that is ready to do whatever it takes to protect Europe, and especially Ukraine.
“Putin’s war is about redrawing the map of Europe, but it is also a war on our Union and on the entire global rules-based system,” she said.”
Well, that’s rubbish if there ever was such. The only time the borders of Ukraine have been redrawn at the barrel of a gun is when Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev did it between 1922 and 1954. That’s right, this bureaucratic half-wit wants to embroil the world in WWIII in order to enforce borders drawn by a trio if history’s most blood-thirsty tyrants.
As explained below, there never was a country even remotely resembling modern Ukraine until the Soviet communists decreed its existence. "
But, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I really don't care about what happens to Ukraine, given its checkered past.
I don't like that Russia just unilaterally invaded another country, cause that behavior seems to just lead to more invasions and more invasions.
Is russia a country with expansionist desires- YES. Was USA a country with expansionist desires until it had expanded from Atlantic to Pacific coasts- YES.
the election was stolen
another democrat act of treason
The stupid thing was for Obama to refuse to give any arms to Ukraine, after he'd meddled in their affairs. It showed that he didn't understand what kind of mess he'd contributed to.
Trump did two things: first, he told Putin that if he invaded Ukraine he'd tell the American oil industry to produce as much as they could, intending to drive the price of oil so low that Russia could make no profit; second, he provided Ukraine with defensive weapons, primarily Javelin antitank missiles, just in case Putin ignored the warning (and which helped Ukraine hold off what Putin had expected to be a three day easy takeover of Ukraine).
If Trump had been reelected in 2020, it's likely that there would have been no Russian invasion, and no need to provide Ukraine with offensive weapons. They could have purchased new weapons on their own, but NATO wouldn't be supplying them.
There were numerous wars fought back and forth over what is now Ukraine, with Cossacks (Tatar ethnic group) warring against the Russians. Then there were the Polish-Lithuanian invasions, with lots of killings by both sides.
The reason Russia wants to control Ukraine is that those fertile plains have been the path invaders took numerous times. The Russians won't feel safe until they control every bit of territory from the Baltic shore to the Caucasus mountains.
The Khazars (source of modern Ashkenazi Jews) made lots of enemies, as each side accused them of funding their opponents, and they were subject to a number of pogroms by the Russians and others that eventually broke up their community. The last Russian pogrom was the inspiration for the well known musical, "Fiddler on the Roof."
easy,
how much "stuff" was left behind in Afghanistan???
likely on purpose
:-)
do not expect answers from dr zelinsky
They have murdered and overthrown dozens of "Democracies" bankrupted and starved countless nations, once on their knees, then used their nations for drug and arms running.
People so quickly forgot how Russia, our ally, won the war in Europe for us by trying up so much of Hitlers resources.
If Russia simply remained neutral, we would have most certainly lost Europe.
If Russia actively sided with Germany, we would be speaking Russian, or more likely German, right now.
Together with Russia, we defeated the German Army.
The Nazis won the war.
All the top scientists were divided between us and the Soviets.
The Forth Reich is alive and well, here in America.
Please, explain that "Russian propaganda fable."
While you're at it, explain how NATO weapons turn up in Syria, Gaza, and Mexican Cartels
The only thing Zelensky has his hands full of is a certain white powder, snorting it with a rolled-up $100 bill.
Or, maybe there really is a Russian boogieman hiding in the closet.
The Holodomor occurred in Russia and it also occurred in the territory you call "Ukraine".and in other parts of the USSR
.
Do you seriously swallow the narrative that Stalin was so unhinged he would purposely kill millions of his own RUSSIAN-SPEAKING ethnic Russian citizens?
There was not even a language called "Ukrainian" until it was cobbled together by Austria-Hungry in the late 1800's and institutionalized in schools in Austria-Hungary-controlled areas of Western Russia to create a separate piece of "Russia" that would oppose Russian authority. Austria-Hungary was trying to divide Russia. Hitler used the same strategy to use Ukrainians to oppose Russia, and there wer4e several genocides by the Ukrainians against the Russians, Poles and Jews. .
None of this is by chance.
I'm always interested in the truth.
The late head of the Wagner group, Prigozhin, pointed out that Putin's invasion also didn't result in Ukraine being "de-militarized," as it quadrupled its military and modernized its combat arms. As for the "de-Nazification," that was always a strawman, based on Russian paranoia from the Ukrainians who joined the Wehrmacht, seeing that as one way to fight against Stalin.
Stalin did a lot of relocating people across the USSR, as he realized that Russia had always been a conglomerate of conquered ethnic groups, and he wanted to make it more difficult for them to develop any sense of independence. The Tatars, who had been a major ethnic group in Crimea, with a strong warrior class, were shipped out wholesale and replaced with ethnic Russians to keep them from causing trouble.
Florida belonged to Spain for over 200 years. Should we give it back? How about California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado as well? Should Alaska be handed back to Russia, as some of them have claimed?
Living in the present matters.
should we start WW# for something that already changes over time?
state rise and fall
leaving behind radiation is not a good way to deal with it
and yes, why is there still a NATO???
when most NATO nations do not pay their fair share
one more time for the very slow
Ukraine was part of Russia for a LONG, LONG time
that there are people from all over Russia living there is clear
what to do about it is also clear
DO NOT START WW3
what i have heard is that Russia refuses to be surrounded by NATO
based on how NATO/US are acting, that is not an unreasonable demand
this war would have ended or not started but for the corrupt biden admin
and you want history?
lets go into the anti-Jewish actions of Ukraine over time
Putin has taken a tactic from Hitler's rulebook: anywhere some of the people speak your language needs to be "liberated." That was the excuse for helping the Donbas territories declare independence, and for continuing to do everything possible to destroy Ukraine's existence as a sovereign state.
Russia is not going ANYWHERE
Poland and Germany have the force to fight
if they do not resist, that is on them
Russia may eat up small states near them, that were once part of Russia
do we start WW3??
as for Czechoslovakia, you analogy fails
Czechoslovakia was part of Austria-Hungry, not Germany
Ukraine was part of Russia longer than the US has been a nation
history matters
That Ukraine "hosted Hitler’s Wehrmacht" has to be one of the stupidest remarks about WWII ever!
Also to argue that Russia is not the aggressor in the Ukraine war because their military spending is a low percentage of GDP is equally absurd.
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