Atlantis must be free

Posted by upston 10 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
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Atlantis must be free or why bother.

Many of us chafe at the ever increasing grip Governments exert on their citizens
here in the US and around the world. The list ranges from the trivial like your toilet flush capacity or type of light bulb to the serious matters of choosing a doctor or school for the next generation. The list gets longer every day.

So if Atlantis is to offer any real relief it’s inhabitants must enjoy all the freedoms we have let slip away. “ In the public interest” they tell us. I see many forum comments on this subject each with a different spin on a new society but at the root of it all is the need to manifest a new destiny without big brothers help, for better or worse.

Al Gore, our oafish and misguided VP was wrong about almost everything in his statist outlook. , Global warming, from which he made millions in carbon credits to his demagogic attacks on the rich over tax cuts,” a risky tax scheme” a mantra he repeated again and again. But even a wooden headed puppet occasionally gets it right. “Controlling Legal Authority” his defense for illegally fund raising from the White House was a wonderful descriptive phrase and without it Atlantis has no future.

The answer for many like the Seasteaders is to drift about in international waters free from interference and the heavy hand of government , not so according to their own consultants. At the Seasteading conference several years back a world class team addressed this matter and the news was grim. The experts pointed out that if anchored in a fixed location the justriction fell to the country controlling that chunk of sea floor or a treaty authority like the UN. If our new city was floating free it had to be a registered flag vessel of an existing nation and then comply with all the maritime regulations as would any other vessel.

The experts had a litany of issues that were well established international law insisting that just hanging out and hoping for autonomy was at best naive at worst foolish. Many at the conference expressed outrage and anger at this revelation , perhaps with moral justification but zero legal standing. So even if all the engineering issues could be overcome the bottom line is no Controlling Legal Authority.

After a fit of rebellion I trashed all the dersin concepts that in many ways resolved the high cost ,safety and expansion issues of a floating city and changed course, focusing instead on a firm legal foundation first and foremost. Whatever the plan it must have a proven track record and be able to survive the litigious challenges that would inevitably come at the first glimmer of the successful execution of Atlantis. by big brother and his acolytes.

The Happiest place on earth is the prototype my friends, yes Uncle Walt built the first theme park in Anaheim CA to the cat calls of the mob, it will never work they said as always but millions came and Disney Land quickly became a victim of it’s own success. Hotels and strip centers encircled the park like a strangler fig and the city of Anaheim turned from an ally to the enemy of the Disney company blocking it’s need for autonomy and expansion

Disney World just south of Orlando on the other hand vested Walt with all the power he needed to have Controlling Legal Authority over 27,000 acres of Florida swamp land.
The City of Lake Buena Vista was established by the State of Florida in the 60s giving it’s only resident , The Disney company, all the rights and responsibilities of a full blown city, construction permits, zoning, utilities, security, transportation, you name it Walt was in full control of his destiny and still,is today.

How did Disney get this authority from the state and how do corporatists do it today ie Tesla's battery factory was just awarded billions to build it’s deadly polluting lithium ion batteries in Nevada, it works every time it’s tried, that old libertarian concept, COMPETITION

In part 2 I will explain all the details of where how and when a new Atlantis is easily within our grasp if as Dr Strangelove said we have the “Will to do so”


All Comments


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  • Posted by samrigel 10 years, 5 months ago
    Interesting, but as mentioned, Mr Disney asked for permission to do what he does. A Gulch not so much!!
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  • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 5 months ago
    It is important to remember that Atlas Shrugged is a novel whose hero has the secret super power of such a high charisma (gaming sense, not religious sense) that he can persuade all (of a really tiny number) of producers to abandon society. The Gulch to which they went in the 1950's novel could not exist in casual obscurity in today's monitored world. The ratio of Wyatts (who shrug) to Dagnys (who do not) is incredibly high in AS. In today's world, the ratio is not only reversed...there are millions of producers who are hanging on, not one Dagny.

    This means that while AS is a good crucible in which the values of production vs parasitism is explored, it is not a model that can be used as a template in the 21st century. For example: there is nowhere on earth that a group of people cannot be observed, brought within legal bounds of some country (or UN jurisdiction) or other, and have military power brought to bear on them.

    If Atlantis were successful, but not politically significant, then it would be the prey of pirates. If it became a significant power, then existing governments would vie for control of it. There is a very low bar to 'too unimportant to bother with' in the US (and in other countries as well) and that goal if obscurity is even harder to attain when you add 'and the community is composed of high-tech producers of value items'. Yes, a few hundred people in a pastoral Peruvian community can be 'under the radar'. What do you think would happen if there were 500,000 people in that community? What would happen if those people began thriving industries that resulted in new and profitable inventions? How would the next socialist Peruvian government respond to that?

    I have read many plans for Atlantis, and none of them seem to me to be plausible. (What I am tending towards is a 'jump rope' opportunistic path...but that is still an early hypothesis.)

    Jan
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  • Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think it can be won with a PR battle. It would look pretty silly for a US battleship to attack a bunch of people living peacefully.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 5 months ago
    About a year ago, I proposed looking into a sea-based development for an Atlantis. Not "seasteading" as currently implemented, examples of which are tied to existing nations and follow their laws, but an entirely new, independent nation, with its of own defense system. Until such time that this can become a reality, considering financial and technical issues, I proposed working out the details of the new nation – legal and cultural, as well as technical. Thus, when a billionaire with greater vision than Bill Gates appears, there will be a blueprint ready to. From a legal viewpoint, ocean-based nation is perhaps the easiest, but perhaps a few small islands could be purchased from an existing country that would come with a complete abrogation of any claims from that country? With much lesser financial and technical investment, this could become a reality in our lifetime. I believe that the key to a successful new nation will be self-sufficiency (nuclear power) and defense (again, nuclear).
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And they made that case in blood. "We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

    We are talking, by the way, about allodial title. You'd have to go to war to win that.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 10 years, 5 months ago
    He's right: somehow Atlantis must stand alone. Now in AS, Atlantis stood alone because it lay hidden. Not only hidden, but unsuspected.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Belize is a good option with many redeeming features especially the banking system which is the only place they will not give account information to the Feds. That said try and carry a weapon and you won't know what hit you. I have a friend that moved from Belize City to the US when he was 12 and soon after arriving got his first pair of shoes.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Belize does not allow personal gun ownership. What that means is that if you become very successful there, the government or the mobs (inspired and directed by the government) will take it all away.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi J, In fact it was your postings that encouraged me to get in. Thanks for being the pioneer, they get the arrows.
    This is real to me as I see no happy ending given out current track, I hope I am wrong but hope is not a plan.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is very unlikely that any gulch will get legal standing immediately. New countries of governments do not get legal standing. I agree that this would be ideal (and would promote capital investment) but I think it is clear from your article that it is not going to happen. Just like the US revolution, the founders are going to have to declare that they are a sovereign nation and make their case.
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  • Posted by jimslag 10 years, 5 months ago
    Interesting correlation to Disney. I knew about as I worked there back in the 70's, Disney World in Florida that is. I worked on setting up robotics on Space Mountain and other attractions.It was an interesting time but it grew old very quickly and I left for the mountains of Colorado and the desert of Las Vegas. That was in another lifetime and I have grown and prospered since then. Prospered not just monetarily but knowledge wise and enhanced my common sense. I believe in liberty and America as an ideal, not just a geographic location. The american Dream lives, just not in the United States or the Washington conglomerate collection of departments. All 50 of them, or in the words of our illustrious President 57(?). Don't know where he went to school, must have been in Indonesia. However, I like Belize as it has a small government, does not interfere in the lives of it's citizens and property is comparatively cheap. There plenty of developments there for those that need modern amenities. Or you can move into the Cayo or Orange Walk Districts and buy a farm or an eco-property. Just an idea, doing research as my parents just moved there in February. Nice house just outside the capital on a nice lot in a nice neighborhood. They love it and don't ever want to come back. It is not for everyone, it is like the US was back in the 50's. No Mega-Stores like Wal-Mart, no shopping malls as we know them, the biggest city is Belize City with around 58,000 population. Most cities are much smaller, the entire country only has a population of 341,000. You can pick your own Atlantis, I know where I am going, it just a matter of when I have had enough to call it quits.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
    Welcome to the discussion, Upston. Several of us have been game planning for Atlantis for some time.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for your comments, In the book the Valley was just hide out under the camo beam, cute but not a very realistic option. Legal standing is a precursor to any long term capital investment needed for any real society, we should not confuse anarchy and a libertarian community.The rule of law is not permission.
    You are correct that the US states offer no relief. the federal government is the problem and no state can resist it.ore protect us from it.

    The UN is a big part of the problem as well but my plan will let us hide in plain site .with total control of our own future.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 5 months ago
    Very interesting. However, Rand's gulch did not ask for permission and neither should a floating city. While the Disney example is interesting, it cannot be a true gulch, because it is asking for permission, which can be refused or revoked.

    I am confused what this has to do with Competition. If you mean between states, then I doubt is will work, because the UN will be against allowing this sort of experiment.
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