IMHO the real problem is looking the other way. We can't agree on a set of rules so we have an unofficial policy of ignoring the problem and having an underclass of 15 million people living and working here. No one has the political will to stop the people who are hiring and doing business with them. Politicians benefiting from the hardcore lowlifes who somehow feel less pathetic talking about using "lethal force force" against people coming into the country don't want to lose that vote. So we look the other way, which creates a bigger problem than any direct solution would.

“This has not been a problem at all for more than a hundred years...”
It’s been a problem since the conception of this country. It took eighty years to get the Washington Monument built because so many people protested the foreigners working on it. The memorial rock donated by the Vatican was tossed in the Potomac River by protestors.
There has always been a problem when the first wave from a foreign land is made up of mostly young single men looking for work. Think--the riots in Miami when the Cubans came or think the berating of the Irish when they came. Young single men? Of course there are going to be more acts of violence, so sometimes those arguments are justified. Crime rates do go up. When families came, they came in droves and they had a huge impact on society and culture wherever they landed. When too many Western Europeans came, we changed the laws to favor Eastern Europeans, when they too came in masses we revised the laws again. When the Great Depression came we punished the Mexicans. People get scared when they feel the sidewalk --the foundation moving beneath their feet. That’s why people come here--they are scared, that’s why we fear them coming here --we are scared.
There was a word used to describe my country when I was a kid, I just don’t hear much any more --generous.
I think there is a difference from opening your door and letting someone into your home, accepting them as family, setting high expectations for their usefulness in your life, from setting a bountiful picnic table out in the yard where you keep the dogs, allowing everyone and anyone to grab and growl at will, not really caring who gets fed just as long as you can say you tried.
I think we can solve the problem by putting a lifetime ban on any government aid from anyone who comes here (and their children) with the hopes of being a citizen if they came here illegally. Its a trade; it’s a consequence for an unlawful act. Make them citizens quickly, but by way of forfeiting the public funds they would have had been eligible for if they came here legally. It will work much better than any wall or drone program could. If, for any reason this becomes to difficult for them, we can offer them a trip back to their country of origins.

I agree it is only part of the problem. That is why I mentioned government intrusion. There are not many things that government touches that does not affect immigration. :)

All that needed:

Lethal force on the border
No welfare services without proof of citizenship
No ability to take any job
No ability to rent an apartment or home
No RIGHT to march in our streets
No perception as a legitimate faction by our government
and
The loss of any possibility of ever attaining citizenship for anyone in your family.

Perhaps you don't know about illegals dressing up like cops and murdering people in Phoenix (about 10 miles south of my home).

Whatever happened to sponsoring an immigrant who will work for you while seeking citizenship?

Give the fedgov credit? All the fedgov need do is ignore the laws currently on the books and everything else falls in line...as evidenced by 20+ million illegal hispanics in this country who the DNC and RNC are heavily courting over the American people who elected them. By allowing people to come into the country illegally - or as O has done BUSSED them in and secretly dispersed them throughout the country - you have families living openly outside the law. Offering them citizenship, as O intends to now, along with a host of welfare services they are already getting, makes them beholden to the Ds. What we have is the fedgov cultivating lawlessness by rewarding it handsomely: health care, welfare, jobs, and, absurdly, a political voice a a faction.

Again, illegal immigrants begin by breaking our laws, no reward - let alone the honor of becoming an American citizen - should ever be afford them.

Bracero program - legal temporary immigration for migrant farm workers.

I think changes to our culture are the root cause. Welfare is a big part of this, but other things happened as well.

Before the civil war it was culturally acceptable to fly your family crest at the top of the flag pole, then your state flag, then the US flag below that. Sometime after the civil war that changed and culturally it was the US flag that went at the top of the flag pole.

I find that analogy of where it was acceptable to fly a flag to tie very closely with the cultural changes that would eventually make many things that would have otherwise been seen as cultural unacceptable, even unconstitutional, just fine later on. a few are:

* Welfare. It became OK to steal from one person so long as you gave it to someone in need and you were the government.
* Social security from something the supreme court said was unconstitutional in the 30ies to something that was constitution in the 60ies, just 30 years later.
* the US culture accepted the idea that diversity was good no matter what. Diversity is good so long as their is a core common thread. Remove the common thread such as the same language and diversity can take you down a bad road.
* The common thread that the individual was responsible, intelligent and capable was once strong in our culture. Now its weakened or gone.
* The concept that a person could be a great as their skills and desires would take them to was unchallenged until 1890 when Sherman law said a man could be to good, to accomplished and if he gets that way the government has the right to knock him back down. Man could achieve great things, but if they are to great the government needs to stop the monopoly he may develop.

The government did not change all of these things in our culture. We the people did it, and the government is simply enforcing the changes we either asked for, or allowed.

I would offer that the problem with immigration is not an illegal immigration problem or an immigration problem, but a culture problem. Until we the people change that, no matter what the laws are, no matter what walls are built, no mater what controls are put in place the symptom of the cultural problem will persist.

To fix this problem we must fix our culture.

I think welfare is a big piece to the root issue, but not the only piece.

What has it done to out culture? What other changes have occurred besides welfare?

Welfare is likely the single largest government intrusion into our lives, and our culture. My favorite quote from Rand "The only difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is time"

Welfare is definitely part of the root cause, but its just a part in my opinion.

I do not really agree with you, and I think you give the government far to much credit.

First our immigration system has always allowed people to come here illegally. The enforced immigration policy was simply come, learn the language and work. Then work towards citizenship. This practice effectively made that the law.

This has not been a problem at all for more than 100 years of our countries history. In fact this policy has only started to cause problems since around the 1930's (very minor) and more serious in the 1970s and later.

Did the government create the underclass to appease business? I do not think so. I think this was an unintended by product that politicians have since taken advantage of.

Did the government do this to create a voting block. Really you think they had that much fore site? Definitely politicians have and will continue to take advantage of this byproduct.

I do not believe our federal government has done anything that would show that they have the capacity to plan out and execute any of the things you mention. You give them to much credit, they are simply not that able.

I also believe that the root problem was not something intended to bring people here in droves that have no desire to work, no desire to be US Citizens and no desire to adopt a culture of individualism. It has done just that.

Note that should have been attract not attack on the second line.

The problem isn't immigration its ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, that group of people who totally disregard our laws, our private property to sate their own needs. Those people are nationals from another land who have right being here and have violated everything they hoped to attain by coming here whether they acted lawfully once here or not.

The fault of this situation rests firmly on the US Federal Government who has created a shadowy underclass to appease business? To create a voting block? Very much like the DNC has create a violent and lawless class in the black community, the illegal hispanic community, who has no desire to assimilate and become citizens, is very much beholden to the DNC -their slave masters with economic, not physical chains.

While being an American who hails from legal immigrant parents I still have no sympathy for anyone in this country illegally AND LOATHE anyone in the Fedgov who offers anything other deportation to these millions of these reprobates.

I have plenty of first hand experience with illegals.

Government intrusion happened. Don't think I need to say more.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head in the fact that when your great grandfather came there likely was no welfare payment. It was work or die of starvation. Of course government intrusion has caused a supply & demand problem too. If it were not for our government, immigration would not be a problem.

I would argue that from this countries founding until some point in time we had a system that attracted people like your friend into the US, and did not attack the bums. We did not have to separate the two at all, it happened automatically based on the desire of the man or woman who came here.

What happened that changed that?

I appreciate you starting the thread as I have been feeling this conundrum as of late. I am conflicted because I have a friend who is an illegal immigrant and I have known him for 10 years. He risked his life to cross a desert with no food or water to get here. He had nothing when he arrived and he did whatever job he could find to establish himself. He has a talent for fixing things like cars and machinery. Sometimes he works 16 hours a day, or he works 24 hour + shifts doing snow removal and he fixes cars on the side. He worked for a small business that became pretty successful and sold to a somewhat larger small business and now he works for that company and makes $18 an hour. He has purchased some equipment and tools and incorporated his own business. He found out that he is actually eligible for a special kind of visa which he is currently trying to gain legal status this way. He has never committed a crime other than a speeding ticket. He obtained a drivers license legally before they started to ask for proof of legal residency which he still has. He rents a house that he keeps in good condition, he doesn't drink or do drugs, and he is an overall good person. He has an accent but has improved his English quite a bit over the years. I may take some flack for this and it is understood, but I would take him over a welfare cheating bum any day. Of course there are a lot of bad illegals, but how do you encourage the good to come and the bad to stay away? You can build a Berlin Wall all along our southern border but people will still get through if they have enough incentive. Some want welfare, but some really want to work and start businesses and be productive members of our society and culture. The question is, how do you separate the two? My great grandfather also came here as an illegal, but he didn't come to receive welfare, he came to work the land. Perhaps if our welfare system were not so pervasive, we would not attract the wrong kinds of people or at least fewer of them?