Atlantis must be free 2
Posted by upston 10 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
Atlantis must be free part 2
Thanks to all who read or commented on part one. This forum separates itself from the majority in it’s thoughtful and polite responders. As I said in a response to J this concept of a Libertarian city state is real to me and not just some mind game or escapist diversion. Further the goal is not to hide from big brother or the looters in some jungle cultist enclave hoping to go unnoticed, I could do that by myself.
The goal is for a fully functional community, not to get away from it all but to take it all with us. To do that we need that most popular word in real estate form the 80s SYNERGY. A couple of hundred like minded colonists scratching out some kind of survivalist existence on a barren beach is romantic but after the first week or two just boring as hell.
To attract colonists all the basics of modern life are fundamental to success. First and foremost is security and safety, what young couple would put their children in danger by moving them to some waco cult in a distant land, a few perhaps but not the profile we need for a new beginning. We need schools and police and banks and retailers and utilities and doctors and home builders and farmers bla bla bla, the list of essential services is almost endless.
Another sticking point seems to be the “permission” factor. The concern is if given it can be take just as easily. In a thug society this is true, old Russian saying. Best form of government GOOD ZAR, worst form of government BAD ZAR. The whole point of this community is to prevent the looters from taking your stuff at the point of a gun . Permission voluntarily given by two parties or a CONTRACT is the root of all human progress.
Marriage was one of the first forms of contract, tribe A and tribe B would send an emissary to broker the girl and boy, perhaps a cow or two, in holy matrimony. Thus mixing the gene pool and promoting an alliance between the tribes, you can still behead and eat your cousin but it’s less likely. This is permission.
The world has long since divided up every inch of land and ocean so arriving on the beach and planting a flag claiming a hunk is no longer an option. Displacing a resident population by force would make us the very thugs we are complaining about. We need the permission of the current owner just as Midas Mulligan got permission via a land contract to buy the valley. Galt got permission from Mulligan in consideration for assets he provided IE the camo beam and the power generator. But he got PERMISSION from the legal owner as we must.
Perhaps a better objection is how do we enforce this contract, what remedies can protect us if the grantor wants to renege. Lets look at some history of similar agreements. Hong Kong is a small island in the South China Sea, the British needed some room to grow so leased Kowloon for 100 years from the Chinese. The colony grew into a powerhouse economy with five million citizens and one of the highest standards of living in the world. Till the commies showed up.
Like Hong Kong hundreds of duty free zones or trade zone or economic development zones have been created , usually waving all manner of taxes and regulations.. In 2003 93 countries has some kind of free trade zones with 93,000,000 workers benefiting. This is well established law and not likely to be challenged if executed properly.
Most of these trade zones are in developing countries where the promise of establishing opportunities for employment and to attract much needed capital investment is a pressing issue and that is the path of least resistance or maximum influence. Large first world governments will never give consent to a breakaway counter culture, counter to high taxes and tyrannical control. As the saying goes one bad apple spoils the whole barrel.
The competition I referred to would be among a hand picked group of well tenured sovereign democratic respected albeit small and some even unheard of nations. We would be granted our own free everything zone for a substantial one time cash prize for a suitable remote uninhabited location within the existing nation, hiding in plain sight. The permission or agreement would be voted on by the legislature and indorsed by the head of state. The first of the contestants to comply with our conditions would win the prize. Then the real fun begins.
How to finance this enterprise , set the terms and select the best five or six locations will be in part three but it’s as easy as falling of a log.
Thanks to all who read or commented on part one. This forum separates itself from the majority in it’s thoughtful and polite responders. As I said in a response to J this concept of a Libertarian city state is real to me and not just some mind game or escapist diversion. Further the goal is not to hide from big brother or the looters in some jungle cultist enclave hoping to go unnoticed, I could do that by myself.
The goal is for a fully functional community, not to get away from it all but to take it all with us. To do that we need that most popular word in real estate form the 80s SYNERGY. A couple of hundred like minded colonists scratching out some kind of survivalist existence on a barren beach is romantic but after the first week or two just boring as hell.
To attract colonists all the basics of modern life are fundamental to success. First and foremost is security and safety, what young couple would put their children in danger by moving them to some waco cult in a distant land, a few perhaps but not the profile we need for a new beginning. We need schools and police and banks and retailers and utilities and doctors and home builders and farmers bla bla bla, the list of essential services is almost endless.
Another sticking point seems to be the “permission” factor. The concern is if given it can be take just as easily. In a thug society this is true, old Russian saying. Best form of government GOOD ZAR, worst form of government BAD ZAR. The whole point of this community is to prevent the looters from taking your stuff at the point of a gun . Permission voluntarily given by two parties or a CONTRACT is the root of all human progress.
Marriage was one of the first forms of contract, tribe A and tribe B would send an emissary to broker the girl and boy, perhaps a cow or two, in holy matrimony. Thus mixing the gene pool and promoting an alliance between the tribes, you can still behead and eat your cousin but it’s less likely. This is permission.
The world has long since divided up every inch of land and ocean so arriving on the beach and planting a flag claiming a hunk is no longer an option. Displacing a resident population by force would make us the very thugs we are complaining about. We need the permission of the current owner just as Midas Mulligan got permission via a land contract to buy the valley. Galt got permission from Mulligan in consideration for assets he provided IE the camo beam and the power generator. But he got PERMISSION from the legal owner as we must.
Perhaps a better objection is how do we enforce this contract, what remedies can protect us if the grantor wants to renege. Lets look at some history of similar agreements. Hong Kong is a small island in the South China Sea, the British needed some room to grow so leased Kowloon for 100 years from the Chinese. The colony grew into a powerhouse economy with five million citizens and one of the highest standards of living in the world. Till the commies showed up.
Like Hong Kong hundreds of duty free zones or trade zone or economic development zones have been created , usually waving all manner of taxes and regulations.. In 2003 93 countries has some kind of free trade zones with 93,000,000 workers benefiting. This is well established law and not likely to be challenged if executed properly.
Most of these trade zones are in developing countries where the promise of establishing opportunities for employment and to attract much needed capital investment is a pressing issue and that is the path of least resistance or maximum influence. Large first world governments will never give consent to a breakaway counter culture, counter to high taxes and tyrannical control. As the saying goes one bad apple spoils the whole barrel.
The competition I referred to would be among a hand picked group of well tenured sovereign democratic respected albeit small and some even unheard of nations. We would be granted our own free everything zone for a substantial one time cash prize for a suitable remote uninhabited location within the existing nation, hiding in plain sight. The permission or agreement would be voted on by the legislature and indorsed by the head of state. The first of the contestants to comply with our conditions would win the prize. Then the real fun begins.
How to finance this enterprise , set the terms and select the best five or six locations will be in part three but it’s as easy as falling of a log.
Previous comments... You are currently on page 3.
1. Infrastructure - if Atlantis is of any size there would need to be roads, bridges, etc.. Who pays for and builds them. Does everyone just pay for their own little portion?
2. Governance - if a location is determined and 'x' acres, square miles, etc are acquired, what happens then. Who controls what land is bought, sold, etc and how are records maintained. I can envision a person providing a 'records service' that maintain and track all such information and transactions, but again, would need to be set up at the start.
3. Legal measures - while, in general, people of the mind are inherently rational and able to reason out their differences, differences while arise. Is there to be a court system initiated? A 'council' of founders? (and if so, how is it maintained as they die?).
Obviously, as a sovereign state, Atlanteans would not want to submit themselves to some outside legal system, that would defeat the purpose entirely..
Again, I love the concept. Trying to break my ties to credit debt / servitude that I've allowed myself to be sucked into over the years so that I can rebuild wealth and participate. Just want to make sure that if it is to happen, all eventualities are considered.
I have set before it should be marketed as a "startup incubator" and a place for services needed by the high-tech startup ecosystem. This doesn't mean you'd reject low-tech at all.
I wholeheartedly agree it must be in plain sight because trade is essential. A Gulch could produce its own copper wire, apples, etc, but it's much more efficient for people to produce the things they're really good at and trade for the rest.
If I make my own practice/business work and build significant wealth, I will support an effort like this by investing in it and serving on its board. By that point, I will know more about making business work. Hopefully some people who are already there can invest their money, time, and expertise in this.
I agree the concept is easy, but the devil will be in the details of international business law that will come up when the thing starts operating. These details are NOT a reason not to try but rather part of the unglamorous work of getting the Gulch going.