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Shocker on CBS: Earth 'Not As Warm...As the Climate Models Predicted'

Posted by $ nickursis 10 years ago to Science
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Well, it seems that not everyone is sure that "climate change" is really "climate change". Maybe they just need to admit they really do not have enough data to say, and approach it from some other direction if it is really a concern. Not being a scientist, I can be open to a discussion about why increased CO2 may be a problem, since it also goes in hand with wiping out the worlds largest carbon sink (amazon basin forests). There may be issues that could need addressing, just not at the point of a spear, screaming in rage and fear..take note climate change aficionados..your approach needs some tweaks.


All Comments

  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And, Turfprint, ALL of that immense weight is fairly quickly and evenly distributed over the Entire Area of the Earth's Surface... amounting to ... how much, roughly, per square inch?
    :)
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 11 months ago
    I'm collecting some graphs and cartoons at http://www.plusaf.com/global-warming/glo... for your information and amusement.
    I find the ones on the Milankovitch data to be the most interesting... they show some interesting correlation with cyclical phenomena that keep lining up VERY nicely... much better than anything Gore or any other Warmites claim.
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  • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Settled Science" is a political term used for forcibly marketing an unpalatable, unsubstantiated program for exerting control.

    Facts have absolutely nothing to do with it.
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    :) Check the FAR Northern parts of Alabama where Falling Skies, Under The Dome and other shows were made... :)
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, if history or economics or engineering has any opinions, humans tend to use whatever's cheapest and most (currently) available until it runs out, and then we (they?) move to whatever's next.

    England deforested their country because wood was abundant; when the woods were gone, they developed coal (with a boost, literally, from development of the steam engine to pump water out of mines.)

    When the coal was depleted, they turned to oil, hydro and wind.

    You can advocate 'jumping to the Next Big Thing,' but if it's not commercially economical, you ain't gonna convert enough people into "believers" to make dat happen!

    But good luck trying!
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  • Posted by $ 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    They do not tend to debate, rather they dictate. Also, they do not encompass the entire system, just that it is "man-made". Where is the pressure to keep the largest CO2 exchange system in the world intact (Amazon)? It is a lot more complex than their simplistic conclusions, and is not very scientific in that they do not test a hypothesis, they build a model.
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  • Posted by BradSnipes1 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    A primary requirement to be considered a "climate Scientist" is that you agree with and support their agenda. Climate deniers are excluded from this group. You may be considered a climate scientist if you support and donate money to the cause. Many climate scientist, who comprise the "100% consensus among scientists", are not scientists at all. Many prominent climatologists like Patrick Michaels, who have dissenting views, are ridiculed and ostracized from this Man Caused Climate Change community. Hence, they claim a 100% consensus among scientists. That is a blatant lie.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    There are a number of sources for the 97%, the most documented one is a study by Cook who's part of the Skeptical Science website (which, in true liberal Newspeak fashion attacks skepticism about global warming).

    They looked at the abstracts of several thousand papers which contained phrases like "global warming" and "climate change". They tried to categorize them in terms of whether they indicated man was involved.

    Only about 34% of the cherry picked papers indicated human causation in the abstract. Of that 34%, 97% (yes, there's the 97%, indicated that it was caused by humans).

    So it was 97% of papers, not scientists and they were cherry picked.

    From the study you could also accurately say that: "In a survey of papers with the terms 'climate change' and 'global warming' only 33% of the abstracts expressed an opinion that it was caused by humans."
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    They do not even have enough scientists. The 97% number is from a group of about 76 scientists selected to to "answer" a question. One of them didn't agree with the "correct" answer.

    It seems that much of the temperature data is adjusted or selected to give the desired result. Hence they have plenty of data. Too much, in fact, so much that they throw away the "bad" data. Oh, and they sifted through about 10,000 scientists to find their agreeable 76.
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  • Posted by BradSnipes1 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Scientists do not have sufficient temperature data to support their theories. They are creating a problem so that they receive their sustenance from the governments. Climate science is political science. It is science with an agenda.
    The agenda is for governments to gain control of the energy sector.
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  • Posted by BradSnipes1 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Please consider the immense volume of the Earth's atmosphere. The amount of fossil fuels burned is insignificant. CO2 in our atmosphere is still only a a few parts per million.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago
    And once again those figures were

    a. bogus according to the original source.
    b. intentionally so to gain more funding for research according to the same source,
    c.Listed by one of the chief originators as not to be taken as factual without a huge amount of additional study.

    How much did Al Bore contribute?
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    The quicksand I stepped into looked deceptively dry and exactly like the solid sand I stepped off of over a rock.
    The sand was sort of off-white in color.
    The rock that may have saved my life was where I fell to the right when my right leg got sucked in just over the knee.
    Those could not be just loose rocks on top of the sand.
    They must have been projections from a rock mantle with sediment sand on top of it.
    At least that's my theory about an incident way back in the 70s.
    Yikes! I just looked at the start of my last post.
    "Of long heard of--" That's "I've," of course.
    One day there may be spell checkers that catch typos of bad grammar.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, the grid is susceptible. One thing keeping it from being compromised is much of the technology is so old, it lacks the hooks to tamper with it.

    SMRs are a good idea. I wish people could understand how many operating hours the Navy has on reactors, and how few incidents (none), even after a 688 ran into an undersea mountain at speed. .
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes butanol will run in both Otto and Diesel cycle engines. It works well as a primary fuel in Otto cycle, but better as an additive in Diesel.

    Hopefully, some of the ideas like free stream river power and small modular reactors will get a push from a renewed interest in distributed power. My military background made me uncomfortable with the idea of an ever broadening, linked power system, as that makes the entire nation vulnerable to sabotage. It looks like some people in the power industry have the same concerns, and are now leaning more in favor of a more distributed power network.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, SVO becomes think, even solid at low temperatures, and the solution is to start with diesel/biodiesel, heat the SVO and switch over.

    Will Butanol run in both Otto cycle and a Diesel cycles, or is it more of an additive? I am unfamiliar with its use in internal combustion engines, but understand what it is.

    Free stream turbines seem like a pretty good idea. The waterways are very well understood and mapped, making the power predictable, and fresh water is a lot more benign than seawater. Water density makes it a whole lot better get power out than wind. A 1 MW free stream turbine is ~9ft in dia., depending on the water speed. A 1 MW wind turbine is enormous. We did some work designing generators and/or converters for Free Flow Power and two other free flow turbine companies a few years ago (names escape me). They all seem to have run into capital problems. Still a lot of equipment for utility-scale power. Not sure if any municipalities have looked into it. Their price point is consumer-use, not generation-level, and a lot easier to show a return.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    We definitely agree on the impractical nature of how so called "clean" energy sources are promoted. The greenies get extremely uncomfortable when you point them to the horrific videos that show the toxic waste generated in production of wind and solar systems. I am a fan of one form of hydroelectric power that's easy to install and "fish-friendly," and that's free stream microturbines.

    As I recall, the glitch in SVO fuel was engines that wouldn't start at low temperatures, even with the proper injectors. The solution was relatively simple: carry a small amount of diesel to get the engine started, and use engine heat to warm the SVO fuel lines.

    A more exotic approach to the diesel substitution idea is the use of butanol (heavy alcohol) as an additive. Even though of SVO-like viscosity, butanol allows engine start even in temperatures that are difficult for straight diesel. Butanol is practically the ideal fuel, with energy content near that of gasoline, and raising both the octane and cetane numbers, making it a friendly additive for either gasoline or diesel engines. The challenge is getting production cost down.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I think we agree, though I would not look at is as a Makers/Hacker "tweaking" engines to run on SVO. If you do this, you sell it, and have real engineers doing the injectors for it. (note - plenty of people run SVO successfully presently by modifying the viscosity with waste heat from the engine.)

    Not sure about being able to produce enough. That is probably something to look into.

    Still think you are still missing my point. I am NOT advocating replacing diesel with SVO. I am simply pointing out its technical feasibility and low cost / very modest technical hurdles to implement, at least relative to any other renewable. My point is that the renewables zealots refuse to advocate simple options because they are not sexy, in favor of wind turbine, solar farms and electric cars. None of which is practical in a comprehensive manner.

    They are just a bunch of argumentative hand-wringing zealots who want to claim everything the present establishment has is bad to get their undeserving hands on the steering wheel.
    We need wind power - what about the birds
    Hydroelectric is clean - what about the fishes and rivers. Release the Waters!
    Solar is the answer - Don't cut down any trees for the farms, and you cannot shade the desert!
    All rely on electric vehicles for transportation, with an order of magnitude battery problem, and zero infrastructure. You point out the need to change diesel engines. Yes; however, SVO-diesel does not require any substantive infrastructure change to fuel distribution, the grid, the vehicles or how we operate the vehicles. Again, I am not advocating to do this, only the ignorance of the zealots pining away for esoteric options.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    There are various camps for kids about Birmingham and along the Coosa River you may want to research to find one that's closed.I do not know of any though.
    I spent three days at Camp Cosby by the Coosa River with my kid and others as a supervising adult on a school outing back in the 90s. Nothing looked new there but it wasn't closed.
    Creating a fictional camp may be an option for you.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Of long heard of folks riding white water on the Cahaba River. Be wary of riverbank sand between rocks you can walk on. I almost lost a boot to quicksand and dented a camera on a rock I managed to wrap an arm around while falling in. Camera still worked and I didn't drown when the band Blonde was popular. Ha! Ha!
    Thank God for that blessed rock!
    There's a Coosa River White Water Festival.
    Below is a helpful start for Bama white water research.

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=alabama+whi...
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