Why Socialism Is on the Rise

Posted by cp256 11 years, 3 months ago to Politics
62 comments | Share | Flag

It took capitalism half a century to come back from the Great Depression. It's taken socialism half that time to come back from the collapse of the Soviet Union. In New York City, avowed socialist Mayor Bill de Blasio has declared that his goal is to take “dead aim at the Tale of Two Cities” – the gap between rich and poor. In Seattle, newly elected socialist city Councilmember Kshama Sawant addressed supporters, explaining, “I wear the badge of socialist with honor.” To great acclaim from the left, columnist Jesse Myerson of Rolling Stone put out a column telling millennials that they ought to fight for government-guaranteed employment, a universal basic income, collectivization of private property, nationalization of private assets and public banks.

Ben Shapiro makes some good points that may help some folks argue with the leftists. See URL for full essay.


All Comments

  • Posted by Stormi 11 years, 3 months ago
    If socialism is on the rise, and it certainly seems more prominent, it is due in part the the government school system. For a decade or more, children, now voters, have been exposed to daily brainwashing on the joys of socialism and the harms of capitalism (which they are not told is crony capitalism)..
    It is not new to have the socialist agenda pushed from the White House. Bush Sr. talked of his "thousand points of light", code for one world socialism. Hillary Clinton had already united with the UN, and was starting to ask people if they had unused bedrooms, with the idea government could use them for homeless people. It was during this time that Portland tried UN Agenda 21 type methods to try to move people out of rural areas and into the city, so the rural areas could be rewilded. They refused to give building permits outside city limits, used population density to say how much yard a person could have, or risk not getting permits for such things as water heaters. Portland and Seattle have always been hotbeads of socialism, just as North Dakota had an active and obvious communist party working there when I lived there. Wisconsin, once the center for communist party activity by the CPUSA, remains extremely liberal.
    However, they are making it hip to be a socialist now. Where once, Hollywood actors were war heroes, today, they are socialists. Kids don't want to grow up, but they want to emulate these immature chronological adults. I doubt any of them seriously get beyond copying them, to the point of reasoned thinking. I am convinced none of them think of morality per se when they embrace socialism. Talking points, that is what they deal in.
    Capitalism needs no justification. It does not need a mantle of morality. Liberals disdain religion, except for Gaia type worship, they are not really into morality when they follow plans like Agenda 21, it is about control.
    If a man is using his brain and reason to exchange value for value, no excuses needed. If liberals don't see it, that is what led to Galt's Gulch in AS. Stupidity is a personal choice to many citizens are making lately.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by libravin 11 years, 3 months ago
    If anyone knows what EVIL is I guess it would have to be you....you hit the bullseye ....if America voted this way Socialism, then as you say they deserve what you get.....people are sleep ing or just don't give a damn.....its not the America I know for sure,I just feel sad that my grandkids are not gonna feel our know the real story which is bring re written in the text books today,,
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There, and to the Herbert Hoover Library...
    ::yawn::

    I'm sorry, where were we?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for bringing back boring memories. Every year, school field trips to the Amana colonies...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Maritimus 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I grew up under the sway of three of the following five prominent tyrants who all called themselevs Socialists: Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Tito and Mao. After maturing to adulthood, I came to the realization that there are two fundamental principles which govern the life of humans everywhere. I use the term principle in the meaning of those in thermodynamics. Things that cannot be proved by calculation or measurement, but that nothing ever in human experience proves wrong.

    First: People get the government they diserve. (Corollary: If you do not rebel, you accept.)

    Second: Socialism is to the human society what cancer is to living tissue - a degenaration of all the most fundamental proceeses of life: freedom, family, work, education, entertainment, government. Just as cancer kills living, socialism poisons society to death.

    From its beginnings in mid 19th century, Socialism has become an intoxication of the unthinking, uneducated and incapable, administered by power mongers, utopians and courtiers.

    Ultimate test will be when we find out, by trial and error, as all true research must do, if the craving for freedom is truly an intrinsic property of humans. I believe that the more or less recorded history of the last 6000 years has shown without the doubt that it is. The same history, I believe, shows that the advancement is not linear and that there are movements backwords. Remember the Dark Ages in Europe? Who says that we are not at the beginning of another such? Apparently, the carnage that was the 20th century is not enough to persuade contless utopians, particularly in the academy, not to more or less naivly support the power mongers who are always present everywhere.

    My own opinion is that the fight is over the minds of people, and my faith is with the Founding Fathers who believed that life, liberty and persuit of happiness are inalienable rights of humans. To me, that implies that humans, by
    their very nature, crave freedom.

    Does any of this blabbing make any sense to you all?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm just having an argument not making a business plan. (amana-low blow)
    I understand the primary. but the primary argument made to a true socialist believer falls on deaf ears. I am not negotiating I am luring out the doubtful. shoot-true believers take work! bait and switch is not the plan. I argue from reason but I build philosophy with another carefully and at the right time
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So, do we sell capitalism by bait-and-switch? I agree 100% that capitalism is the best social system for letting people decide for themselves how to engage in charity.Under capitalism, you can form a commune.
    "The most widely known business that emerged from the Amana Society is Amana Refrigeration, Inc. This national leader in the production of refrigerators was founded by an Amana native, George C. Foerstner at the time of the Great Change. The first beverage cooler, designed for a businessman in nearby Iowa City in 1934, was built by skilled craftsmen at the Middle Amana woolen mill. In the decades that followed, the mill became the site of this large, now private, plant producing refrigerators, freezers, air conditioners, and in 1965 introduced a new product--the Amana Radarange Microwave Oven. Today, the 19th-century woolen mill smoke stack still rises over the modern plant." -- http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/amana/text....

    It is indeed true. However, it is a consequence, not a primary. To sell capitalism on that basis is to undermine the foundations. It might be an interesting way to open a discussion with a communalist. I am not sure how productive that will prove to be. You might have (or had) some success via that route. I do not perceive it as a strategy.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    it was about argument. how best to grab a potential audience. Also, it's not about belief. it's about thinking things through as you well know.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I grew up near the Mississippi in SE iowa. My uncle did the art fairs for many years. He was a wood carver-santas mostly. I miss the lakes but I'm on the ocean. it's an eitheror
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Zenphamy, I agree. You identified the essential distinguishing characteristics when you wrote, "Capitalism is an economic theory and Socialism can best be defined as political in nature." It is Market versus Power. Capitalism is about agreement; socialism is about force.

    I am disconnected from your last paragraph, after which you confess to being "disjointed." (ouch! I hate when that happens).

    Socialists complain that firms are only interested in quarterly results. That fails on two grounds. First, past prices do not determine future prices. The present is the only reality. More deeply, successful firms with longevity do look to the far future. They invest about 15% in R&D.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I posted it for discussion, of course. I found it interesting, but not gospel.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago
    While I might agree that Socialism is on the rise, I don't see that as necessarily a failing of Capitalism to establish it's legitimacy in a moral sense. I see it more as Capitalism attempting to find the easy road in the face of Socialism and trying to justify itself in a compromise in the moderate sense. Capitalism's morality lies in the individual and natural rights. Implying a 'forced altruism' that says that if you don't buy my products, even though I don't like you, I will starve. Where's the individual in that statement? it's not there, only a you and I are there, a group by definition that rejects the individual. The rational individual won't starve. He will prepare and shift strategy or product as necessary to provide for himself. He will learn and adapt.

    While Capitalists have abandoned the morality and successes of the rights of the individual, the Socialist have kept on with the path of destroying the middle class, therefore creating more perceived need for promised help and relief that can only be obtained from Socialism's enlightened programs. Capitalism is an economic theory and Socialism can best be defined as political in nature. Socialism's goal is not an economical leveling as discussed in intellectual terms, but is directed at subjugating the rights of the individual to the power of the state. It is about power and control. Economics is simply a prong on the methodology to attain that goal.

    Any attempt to argue the benefits of the economics of Capitalism over Socialism immediately encounters the self doubts and lower self esteem of general society as well the complexity intrinsic to the understanding of economic issues at the individual level. In order for Capitalism to gain traction, it must build upon the benefits of self determination, freedom from - and freedom to, and opportunity to the middle class individual to not just succeed, but to sustain. It must cast centralized technocrat control as fumbling, inept, wrong, and harmful to that same middle class individual.

    But Capitalism can't grow until it casts off the desire to compromise, to fit in, to sustain today's profits while tossing to the winds tomorrows gain. It must also develop a language that is more common to the general population and is directed to the fears and aspirations of that middle class individual.

    I'm feeling disjointed right now and need to think more on this.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If that is what you believe, cp256, why did you post the original link? That article did not celebrate profit, but rather, service to others. I agree that compromise with socialism led to the demise of capitalism, but how is this article to which you linked not an example of compromise to altruism?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is where Objectivism differs from Austrian economics. Objectivism recognizes that we have _different objective values_. If you buy a classic Mustang and let a pretty girl sell you a set of metric wrenches, your "subjective" value for flattery will not meet your needs. On the other hand, when I buy those metric wrenches for my classic VW Bug, I have made an objective choice, albeit, not one that a Mustang owner should make. Austrian economics calls them all "subjective" choices.

    Objectivism solves the problem with finer granularity.

    Yes, reason is limited. So is experience. That is the reason why is it important to note that just as they are not omnipotent, neither are they impotent. Limited as our knowledge and experience may be, our choices can be subjective (whim, or mystical) or objective (pro-life).

    I do agree with you 100% that the "conservative theory of economics" is not consistent with Objectivism. I mean, you can find easily an array of "Biblical Abundance" preachers. As in the main link here, you find them justifying capitalism on altruistic grounds. I have to grant at least the Parable of the Talents, but, really, you know, if you wanted to invest in Nevada Whorehouses, you would be hard pressed to find a Christian minister to endorse that... gratefully: I mean, let's nod to logical consistency here...
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I must respectfully disagree. Capitalism need not apologize for anything, it just needs to show a profit at every turn!

    Compromise is one of the big reasons that the socialists have gained so much ground in the past century.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    steak with a red wine reduction and sliced mushrooms with cracked black pepper sauteed in butter and finished with a little cognac. fresh spinach wilted with garlic. it's an aromatic evening.
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by dbhalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While I do not think Shapiro is making the case for "altruism" as a philosophical system, he is still using that sort of reasoning. I think he makes a good point about Socialism being theft. I don't think conservatives are capable of a moral defense of capitalism - at least those that are religious. But I agree that it does need to be made.

    However, I also do not believe that their is theory of economics that is consistent with Objectivism. It certainly is not Austrian Economics which is what most Objectivists lean towards. Austrian economics is based on the idea that reason is limited and people's economic decisions are subjective.
    Reply | Permalink  

  • Comment hidden. Undo