You have our vote about the leaders of this country. I think there are a number of very valid conspiracies that are actually much worse, including the NSA spying program, which we now know for sure is fact.

I think you misunderstood me Zen. I have lived through all of that too. I am 66 and I do not believe or trust our gov't. I have seen it all unfolding. I just do not want to jump to conclusions when I do not have all of the facts.

I've lived through the assassinations of the Kennedys, being drafted after LBJ's 'Black Flag' Gulf of Tonkin incident, lies about Cambodia and Laos, Nixon's Watergate and Pentagon papers, Agnew's retiring to avoid prosecution, Reagan's Columbia and Nicaragua and Iran weapons deals with Nancy consulting an Astrologer, Bush's 'Read my lips', and on and on and on.
If you believe and try to defend anything told to you by our government or media--well you really have no business trying to talk to me. You're the primary reason this country is in the state it is.

Thank you Db and K for watching the video. I have also watched the videos you provided. As I told Zen above, I am not a conspiracy theorist, (even though I did enjoy X-Files), but I do not trust the leaders of our country. I think they are like AR exposed them in AS: Idiots. But it is beyond horror if someone in our country orchestrated 911. The videos you provided were comforting to me, but I will still wonder about building 7. Thank you for your response.

I am not generally a conspiracy theorist, but my husband and I have done a lot of research on 911 as well. Believe me, I do not want to believe our gov't could be so evil as to do something on this scale to bring us all under their control. I just do not trust our leaders but I think they are too stupid to pull something like this off. At least I hope they are. Thank you, Zen, for your response.

I generally avoid discussing this anymore as a result of the 'cognitive dissonance' I invariably encounter, even from some of the more intelligent amongst us.

I've spent a number of years in explosives manufacturing; in mining and the uses of explosives (300-ton chemical timed and sequenced); in metal and mineral extraction and processing; in metals smelting, casting, hot roll milling and cold roll milling, annealing, tempering, and alloying; in situ fragmentation and self-fueled retorting of shale oil, kerosene and other oil derivatives from oil shale; and in large scale heavy manufacturing construction.

I've read much of the peer reviewed literature available on the incident and I'm comfortable stating that 'We were deceived and lied to', and the cost to each of us has been a severe loss of freedom and an economy teetering on the edge of disaster.

So K and I watched the video and Steven Jones appears to be sincere in his opinions and not a nut. However I was immediately skeptical that fire had not ever caused a steel building to collapse and the structure of the WTC towers were very unique. The two strongest points of the video were WTC building 7 and his thermite like particles in the dust.

However the fire dept. evacuated the area because they expected WTC 7 to collapse. Second it seems very odd that in all the dust and debris there would be that much un-reacted thermite.

Here are a couple of helpful videos on point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpC_...

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMZ-n...

And the concrete and steel turned to dust where no fire had burned. How convenient.

Americans got conned into giving up liberty again.
"No one ... is exactly what he appears."
You want truth, send the panel that wrote the 911 report to Gitmo for persuasion. Then execute them as traitors since the 5th amendment doesn't apply any more.

The jet fuel didn't have to melt the beams and girders, it just had to soften some whose integrity was already severely damaged by the jet impact. The sheer weight of the building above the point of impact combined with the weakened beams and girders were enough to bring the building down on itself.

I believe the design of he building, essentially tube structures, was intended to have it collapse in on itself. Considering Manhattan falling to any side would have been even more catastrophic.

Correct it defines ignition points and flash points. Once you feed oxygen to it, numbers change.

The more oxidizer available the hotter the burn, just as SaltyDog said.

Yes. I agree with all of that.

"Jet fuel burns at 800 to 1500."
The temperature at which something burns does not set an upper bound on how hot you can get something by containing heat from the combustion. Can a chem E or physicist set me straight please if I'm wrong?

I hope JB sees this and jump in.

Name one other hi rise fire with thousands of pounds of jp4 as an accelerant to start the fire?

The support of the structure was the exoskeleton, and this was by design, to collapse inward in the event of a catastrophic failure. If it was built like traditional structures it would have gone over sideways, and the devastation and loss of life would have been much, much worse.

All of these assumptions are fine. But please watch the video of this physicist before you totally rule out the idea that all 3 buildings did not collapse in their own footprint, (implode) because of fire. High rise buildings on fire have never, ever, ever imploded in on themselves. Being objective is what we are all about. Science means something.

The jet fuel was merely the accelerant. Once flammable material started burning, a draft was established...hot air rises, surrounding air rushes in at an ever increasing pace as the fire expands, and a fire storm has started. Oxygen is what gives a fire it's heat; more air rushing in, fire gets hotter. Fire gets hotter, more air rushes in. The only way to stop it at that point is let the flammable material burn out and the fire runs out of fuel. And at those temperature, almost anything becomes flammable.

Ditto - you nailed it.

Steel doesnt have to melt to have its properties changed.
Heat treating
Annealing
Tempering

None require the steel to melt.
A steel structure building under load will collapse if the structure is weakened enough. Weakening does not require the melting of the members.

Jet fuel burns at 800 to 1500. Wind though the structure will boost that some, similar to a bellows in a forge. Changing the temper of the steel is all that is needed to have the pressure on it exceed its strength.

Once any movement in the structure starts to relieve the strain it won't be stopped. Once one floor dops, the transmitted shock will exceed the strength of even undamaged structural members.