WAG on elimination of Drug War etc that exists to justify the armed fed police force. Less need for prisons.

Here's my guess on what happened: the group's spokesman had a habit of shaking his finger in the direction of opposition as he argued; adrenalin-charged FBI shooters saw what they perceived as what might be a pistol (finger with pointed index finger) pointed at them, and cut loose, killing the rancher. Before the leader of the government crowd could stop the shooting, at least one more person was hit. Now they're being purposely vague until a government "Baghdad Bob" can come up with a plausible cover story, and praying no independent video of the incident exists.

Eyewitness Account of LaVoy Finicum's Murder by Federal Agents
--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wA18...


Towards the end of the interview, it was stated that the vehicle was all shot up. I doubt the FBI will allow any pictures of it however.

I live about a hundred miles away.
Our local hospital (only one with adequate emergency room) was on lockdown all night awaiting casualties during and after the incident. None came. Perhaps the Feds were expecting a higher body count.
Latest word (rumor, but published) is that LeVoy took off in his pickup after the traffic stop and came upon another roadblock down the road, went off the road into a snow bank, and was shot while "reaching for his waistband." If they release the cam results, this may clarify things. The lefties around here are going nuts with fist pumps and hallelujahs. A sordid mess, for sure, whatever the results of the investigation.

I don't get the 1/20 part.

Given the lack of an "official" statement in the matter and explanation of the particulars of the arrest, I am leaning towards that conclusion as well.

I knew it was going to come to this. Obama's government is arrogant,, petulant, and MUST rule over people. Insurgencies cannot be tolerated by him. Look at how Snowden, who should be a hero, was met with Obama's arrogance (Putin put Obama in his place). Best to hide in plain sight and not openly fight Obama while he is in office.

If Ammon Bundy's report is true it wasn't a "standoff" with a "militia", it was an ambush and murder.

I agree with what G. Edward Griffin had to say about the standoff in Oregon
http://tinyurl.com/jotplr4

and

http://tinyurl.com/hf42g9m

Ruby Ridge redux.
Hubris never learns.

The only reports I have heard are second-hand, mostly being from Ammon Bundy through outside contacts (as he is in jail). The daughter of the victim claims that she was told her father had his hands up and was shot in the face while trying to surrender.

What also didn't get reported much is that Ryan Bundy was also shot and wounded, but not killed.

This is all over talk radio in my area as we're only a couple hundred miles away. It was on the headlines of the paper (which is another left-leaning news outlet) but it - interestingly - contained no official statement from either Oregon or Federal Law enforcement. I think they're crapping in their pants right now trying to craft a statement that lays the blame on the militia men, but they're going to have a hard time explaining the deliberate entrapment and trumped up charges in the face of a murder.

Win the debate, hearts and souls of a significant number and then follow Martin Luther King's example. Should enough do that the system would soon become completely mired down by the sheer numbers.

So... no mention of anyone from the group firing first or even drawing a weapon?

So the first things I see in the official news reports are staggering and telling.

#1. They didn't initially report a confrontation with Federal law enforcement.
#2. The man who died was the spokesperson for the group. Pretty suspicious. And secondhand witness accounts indicate that he really did have his hands up and that no member of the convoy attempted to resist in any way.
#3. The convoy was on its way to speak to a gathering of interested citizens in another county and they were being escorted by that county's sheriff.
#4. There is no mention of the federal roadblock which was set up specifically to trap them.
#5. There is no mention of the charges on which the remaining members of the convoy were booked, which are ludicrous. It is "interfering with a Federal officer in the line of duty. That this is a manufactured charge is evident.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven of outright federal tyranny. Everyone involved in this should be up on premeditated murder charges, illegal arrest charges, and more - including the Oregon Sheriff who led them into the trap.

the prospects aren't the best. . our government is
out of bounds in a big way. -- j
.

Ruby ridge...

but you know how the feds want to control the media coverage,
to be able to spin things in their favor. . locals may not be as
bad in that respect, at least in the countryside like this. -- j
.

it's a horrible additional justification for defense of the
second amendment ... damn. -- j
.

Another reminder why going Galt is better than standing and fighting. When I first heard of this standoff I thought to myself that the Feds are going to massacre those guys. The best thing those guys could probably do is invite in a couple news crews to document everything. That's what probably gave them a good result down in the desert in the last standoff.

Armed federal law enforcement is unconstitutional.
That is the source of these problems.
No federal agency should be funded for armed law enforcement. This should be worked out with state government and if absolutely necessary use of the state 'national' guard.
However, in this case, there would be no incentive for the state to support the feds, and that is exactly as it should be.
Waco would have been peacefully settled without Federal armed law enforcement.
Ruby Ridge would never have happened.
The bombing of the Murrah Building in OK City would never have happened either.
The federal prison system would be 1/20th of its size and that would be mostly empty cells.
Instead, a lot of people are in jails for victimless actions, and the federal government has millions of guns and billions of rounds of ammo to use against the people.

Damn. I was hoping this wouldn't happen. Probably never know the whole truth.

The irony behind the Oregon situation is that I had just read a story last night by Reason Magazine's editor describing the relative restraint shown by law enforcement in Oregon compared to Ferguson, MO and Baltimore, MD.