Interesting book, jbrenner.

And once it's out of the body, it is no longer abortion, then it is murder, pure and simple.

Are you ok ewv?

The way that abortion is practiced in America indeed represents a sacrifice to me and to all taxpayers. My money goes against my will to indirectly fund Planned Parenthood.

If you don't think that abortion is a sacrament to many on the political left, you should read

https://www.amazon.com/Sacrament-Abor...

in which Ms. Paris justifies abortion as an act of human sacrifice to the goddess Artemis.

agreed. but its so complex and either way I doubt it impacts me enough to spend the time to analyze it. Maybe it should be up to the states at least, and let people work it out in each state.

One of the problems, as I see it, is that once a baby is capable of sustaining it's own life (breathing, heart beating, etc.), abortion becomes murder, which is illegal in this country.
Anyone who supports those kinds of abortions would have no problem accepting a woman's drowning of her own child, simply because it was an inconvenience to her.

Well, what kind of girl runs around outside in only her panties and a jacket?

I said nothing about abortion. But since you brought it up, abortion is no more of a right than health insurance. Both are a choice and at some point it's removing an individuals right to live.

That progressive political ideology of collectivism and statism is in fact regressive is commonly noted, but it has nothing to do with the right of abortion, which is the right of every individual woman to her own body. Trying to smear the right of abortion as nothing but "progressive" is an illogical package deal. Progressive versus dogmatic religious conservativism is a false alternative. They are both regressive.

Once again we see militant, cowardly anti-Ayn Rand religious dogmatists bulk-downvoting rational discussion they don't like, with no response even attempted, as they try to subvert the forum by non-rational means. They repeatedly violate the purpose of the forum and do not belong here.

No one said an "abortion shower is progress". The misrepresentation evades the central issue that moral defiance "brazenly" rejecting the unearned guilt of religious dogma should be "normal".

That post is more disgusting and irrelevant than the original fixation on a third rate song. "Noble sacrifice of keeping down the population with profuse spills of baby blood" is a wishful smear fantasy typical of the inability of militant religionists to discuss the topic rationally.

So what? It's entirely irrelevant to the topic. "Displaying a black coffin" by some nut, even if true, has nothing to do with the right of abortion. Far worse than bizarre coffin art is the barbaric practice of forcing women to bear children they don't want. The mindless hysteria over a third rate song and "coffins" as like the fall of the Roman Empire is irrational irrelevancy.

And competing, equally arbitrary religious dogma also condemns that. But the practicality and moral use of contraception is irrelevant to the morality of the right of abortion, and appealing to it is a deflection from the main topic of the article denouncing what it calls "brazen" rejection of unearned guilt. Such rejection should morally defiant and should be "normal".

The exercise of the right of abortion is not any kind of sacrament and has nothing to do with sacrifice of virgins. It is done by the choice of a woman in her own interest for her own individual life. The Christian ritual of celebration of the self sacrifice of its hero is morally repulsive. No hedonist, subjectivist "celebration" of an abortion is anywhere near that.

It's important to you because rights are indivisible. It's doesn't directly impact you medically, but whether or not it does so for someone you personally care about or know, denying anyone's rights denies the principle, which is a threat to everyone. The entire mentality of militant, dogmatic religious duty is profoundly a threat.

well, thats something for the women to be concerned about. I cant get pregnant so its not important to me

The right of abortion is a natural right of a woman to her own body. Exercising it, when required,solves problems, it does not avoid it. The right of abortion is a right of the individual, not political progressivism.

A woman's choice to have an abortion at any stage is not "unhinged". The vast majority of late term abortions are for reasons of health and threats to the life of the woman. "Unhinged" is the barbaric practice forcing women to bear children they do not want.

Nothing in this snide, bitter post is a "logical conclusion" of anything.

No one is "celebrating the murder of an innocent person" and the right of abortion is not associated with "lost all grounding to that which is moral in the first place", which grounding is not faith.

Hyperbole about the right of abortion as the "first steps in the fall of Rome" makes no sense at all. It is more hysterical sloganeering by militant opponents of a woman's right to her own body.

Those measure are routinely employed and not relevant for what to do if they aren't used or don't work.

But back to the topic of the thread, whatever one thinks of third rate "popular music" and leftist "culture" that is a false alternative to the religious right, the conservative article denounced lyrics telling people they need not feel an unearned guilt instilled by religious denunciation:

"You don’t need to offer the right explanation
You don’t need to beg for redemption or ask for forgiveness
And you don’t need a courtroom inside of your head
Where you’re acting as judge and accused and defendant and witness"

Those lyrics are true. Having an abortion is no one's business but the woman's. The song is intended less as gratuitous "celebration" for what it calls a difficult decision, than a statement of defiance against religious dogmatists inculcating unearned guilt -- like the author of the article, who sneers at the lead of his "news" article: "abortion activists are getting more brazen in pushing their agenda to normalize and celebrate abortion every day." People should be brazen in defying the dogmatists. But the basis of doing that is rational understanding of objective morality and rights, not hedonism and bad songs.

This is yet another of those things that if I didn't know it was true, I'd think it was something from The Onion.

And I also really like jbrenner's substitution term of "regressive". Not in my wildest nightmares can I conceive (pun intended) of an abortion shower as progress.

The Virginia did not "openly talk about killing babies". The right of abortion is not "collectivism or progressive fascism", like 'beheading little girls", and has nothing to do with stories about "Hitlary fund raising" with "black coffins". Neither that kind of subjectivism nor "reevaluating your faith" are a means for rational understanding or relevant to discussion on an Ayn Rand forum.

I wrote that abortion is a sacrament to the regressives, not "sacrament to regressives". Every religion has its sacraments. For pagans, the sacrifice of virgins has gone on for millenia. The Christian practice of taking part in Holy Communion is an acknowledgement and acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice of himself. Likewise, abortion is a sacrament for the regressives; they quite literally celebrate its occurrence.