Mr. LeoRizzuti: I dislike saying this, but the more you post the more I am convinced that you really have no clue about Christianity. The basic Gospel message, as you should well know, is "Repent and Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ." How is that not "force(ing) my faith on the others in a country..." Culture is not the determiner of truth. It is the Holy Spirit speaking through the Scriptures that shows forth the truth. But, of course, a "student of the Bible for more than three decades" would already know that - shouldn't he? Next, you state an outright lie, "Read my original post, all I am saying is that the true fight should be to get the government out of the defining marriage business." That is not "all" you are saying as anyone who reads your second paragraph can easily discern. Finally, you claim that you do not want to force your views on others, but that is exactly what you have been doing in your OP as well as these posts. God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. It may be very possible that you have been using your mouth too much, and have not been listening to the Word of God.

I have been a Christian for most of my life, thankyouverymuch (I did have stint of atheism for a few years before realizing the illogic of it). I have helped to establish four churches in my home town and have been a student of the Bible for more than three decades. At the moment I am in the process of writing a devotional for Christian Tea Partiers. I am sorry that you think that my unwillingness to force my faith on the others in a country where there is free choice and practice in regards to religion means that I am ignorant of a subject that I am well versed in. And everyone is trying to market their ideas, whether they know it or not. Otherwise, why even speak your mind about something? When Christ commanded us to "go forth and be fishers of men" he was commanding us to market salvation into a world that needed it. Understand that when you speak in a public forum that you are in a position to influence others and sway them to your side. Read my original post, all I am saying is that the true fight should be to get the government out of the defining marriage business, which necessarily means that government should not have the current power that belongs to the individual. If you do not believe that, then you are ultimately asking for the government to act in the same way as the Islamic countries of the Middle East.

Thank you for seeing the real point.

Thanks you for getting exactly what I was originally stating!

you say you understand. but yet, you downplay that groups and individuals have purposely tried to destroy our freedoms. this has nothing to do with age, but it has everything to with perspective. freedom is precious. Is Objectivism totally divorced from the world? as the US continues to fall apart, you give the impression that is irrelevant to your life. that is not AS.

The fact that the discussion has become about my age meaning my perspective is necessarily limited and thus shouldn't be treated with as much value as the opinion of others shows that the arguments of those using it as a supporting premise are flawed.

I am well aware of the way things were, are, and might be and take the best actions to improve my life within my context of existence,

SNL-I lost a point for saturday night live?

You bemoan that you are losing and then alienate potential allies by dismissing them as ignorant twits or too young or etc.

You blame the problems on people like me, (without even knowing who a person like me really is, mind you), saying I am the reason the "lefties have gained all the ground they have."

How are those approaches working? You don't seem very happy...

Who's knocking your point off? For saying "those were good times"????

those were good times

It's getting line of the day!

Very well expressed

No soup for him! I love your first sentence. It brought to mind, "Jane, you ignorant slut!".

This is very funny :-)

NP.

Hey, Competence!

The disease argument falls so short it is not even really worth addressing. AIDS is certainly a predominantly homosexual disease, but the rest are found in every ‘group’ of society. And so what if gays have more mental disease. IT IS THEIR CHOICE. If they want to put themselves at risk, it is their choice. Not turning a blind eye to it, just standing on liberty and freedom.

I do not believe in evolution. So your argument is pointless to me. If they don’t procreate, so what? What is that to you? You should put your effort into stopping abortion if you care so much about procreation. There are certain things in morality you can legislate. What goes on between two consenting adults behind closed doors is not one of them. If they do something in public, that is another matter.

The government conveniently calls a marriage a contract. But it was never initially, nor for thousands of years, called a contract. The government should have no authority in any marriage. If the people involved want to make it a contract, fine. Again, their choice.

The issue of “God” is ridiculous. If the government was not involved in my marriage and my marriage was not a contract, it would not be an issue for voters. Find me a place in the New Testament where other adults are to force other adults to behave sexually in one way or another. I am against homosexual marriage for a lot of reasons, one of them is because of God’s Word. Whether or not somebody else believes the same thing is not my problem. If you think it is, that’s your problem.

The real battle is to get the stinking government OUT of the marriage business. (And people shouldn’t be forced to pay for education either. That should be a choice as well.

Try reading Matthew 10:14. It may give you some peace on this subject.

People are often disillusioned or incorrect about what will further their life. Someone may believe that it is best for them to kill their neighbor and take take his/her food and money - hence the laws to sometimes prevent and other times to removed them from society for the safety of others. Morality is objective, but would you want a society that just trusts that people will act in a way that best benefits them and society in the long run? I believe we all want some basic rules to minimize the chaos. We are just discussing what those basic rules should be. Government has turned the rational thinking and productivity needs out of the equation by removing natural consequences. If you don't work, then you don't eat. Now the truth is, if you don't work, then you get food, a home, a cel phone,.... Now truth is the 13 year old in our town who stopped studying after making such improvements with a mentor, because her mother told her you are not going to get a job, you are going to have a baby. Natural consequences are no more in our lost country.

Sorry I missed it. If you fact check it you will find there is some ambiguity. Snopes even claims that it is "probably" false, but we know they are not always reliable or unbiased.

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/...

There is also this from wiki:
Norman Thomas
(1884-1968) six-time U.S. Presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America
Source:
1948 - from an interview during the presidential campaign,
[Ed. note: Norman Thomas and Gus Hall, the U.S. Communist Party Candidate, both quit American politics, agreeing that the Republican and Democratic parties by 1970 had adopted every plank on the Communist/Socialist and they no longer had an alternate party platform on which to run.]

reference:http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/norman_thomas_quote_ffb1

It can be found in many other places if you search for it. But unless you were there or have a recording or official transcript I am unaware of, it is subject to dispute...
Regards,
O.A.

I thought that was in 1948? I posted the quote earlier today. See below.

The entire argument 'against' gay marriage is a red herring. Don't chase it. The real argument is 'should the government be allowed to regulate marriage at all.' The government has no business sticking their nose into my personal business. What do I care if a person marries a goat or an ashtray. Polygamy? Who cares? Think it through to any end you want. The government should just shut up. This doesn't mean laws to protect should be trashed, like child-sex laws, but I don't need to get permission from the government for who and when and how I can marry.