"The framework of natural rights is an extreme outlier in the annals of history - it certainly isn't the norm. Most of the history of the world has been aggression and coercion through monarchy and dictatorship. The United States' founding and rise to prosperity was a rather extreme anomaly."
Yes. I agree 100%. It's an anomaly, with no guarantee it will continue. I sometimes say liberty is "not the default state for humankind", but I like your wording better.

When I was talking about ancient narratives that allowed large groups of people to work together, I was not suggesting they involve respecting individual rights or that they were anywhere nearly as effective at generating prosperity as liberty is.

This is one reason why I find the notion of a few bad actors or one political party being the source of undermining liberty absurd. It's probably pointless to talk about it because I find it absurd on its face. I would be happy if it somehow turned out to be true (it isn’t) because it would simplify the problem of maintaining a government with limited powers granted to it by people who believe in personal liberty.

While idealistically I agree with you, the sad fact of the matter is that most people are sheep; they do NOT think for themselves. They don't reason or use their rational faculties nearly at all. It's why the Democrats have control of the United States in the first place. It's why most major big cities are run by Democrats. So you can "find the idea absurd" if you want to, but it's real life and it's pervasive. And it is the primary reason the United States is being destroyed.

"The ancient narratives that historically allowed people to work together..."

Uh.... The framework of natural rights is an extreme outlier in the annals of history - it certainly isn't the norm. Most of the history of the world has been aggression and coercion through monarchy and dictatorship. The United States' founding and rise to prosperity was a rather extreme anomaly. I'm not saying it isn't the way things ought to be, but one paints a 1619-ish, ie fabricated, portrait of history when one attempts to imagine a period in this world's history where natural rights represented the dominant cultural theory. To my knowledge, only the ancient Israelites (pre King Saul) and the Anglo-Saxons had any claims on a society based on natural rights prior to the American Founding.

"It certainly would be if it were not for [a group of bad actors]."
If the world would be acting with reason and respecting one another's rights if it weren't for a few bad guys, a idea that I think is patently absurd, that would be a good situation because the bad guys can't stay organized forever.

I just find the few-bad-actors idea absurd, though.

The billions of people of the world respecting one another's rights but working together through mutually-agreed trades is not easy to execute. People need a shared narrative of human interaction. The ancient narratives that historically allowed people to work together and are still with us today are often collectivistic, or at least are often interpreted that way.

So "it's a few bad guys" is a dead end for me, so absurd I can't imagine there being any truth to it. I think there are many good guys, good guys not acting through any of that political crap you mention, who move the world forward.

It certainly would be if it were not for the race-hucksters and bigots on the left that continue to push a narrative of divisiveness and hate based on skin color. The Democrats support for the 1619 Project, Antifa, BLM, reparations, and Planned Parenthood all smack deeply of bias and racism.

I hope you are wrong. I think the world is getting better in those areas. That's far from saying those problems are solved, but the long-term trend for humankind is away from those things.

"You just left out the part about coercing others by threats of violence."
I think, although I'm always open to new ideas, that not initiating violence flows from reason and respecting one another's rights. Even if it does flow logically, it does not hurt to err on the side of restating it.

Absolutely. See again the example I gave regarding the black population here in America. Thomas Sowell lays out a convincing case in several of his books. Being himself a black man living through it, I find his personal experience and professional evaluation to be not only persuasive, but authoritative.

You think the problems you mentioned (collectivism, looting, lack of independence, victimization, racism, violence, gangs, and fatherlessness) were mostly not as bad in the years and centuries prior to 80 years ago compared to during the last 80 years?

The worst optics possible… see my post

Worst trade ever.Babe Ruth for a Musical or Griner…..
Posted by $ Dobrien 40 minutes ago to History
0 comments | Share | Edit | Delete

A Ukrainian carrying drugs would have been hired to work for the FBI to cheat in the next election.

Time flies, When you are having fun.

Thanks, Dobrien. I absolutely love writing. I get so wrapped up in it that every now and then my husband has to remind me to eat. Once I worked for 6 hours straight and the time flew so fast that I never noticed. :)

You made my day and offer something to look forward to. Great.

Checkmate occurred when Putin freed Crimea and the people voted to join Russia. The latest from Ukraine is further evidence of Devolution. A recent delivery of advance missile system to Zelensky had been altered to not be able to fire rockets into Russia. As hard as Biden has tried ( blowing up Nordstream2 , firing missile into Poland , Nuclear false flags ) he has not been able to get the war with Russia that he wants or I should say that the WEF (ReichsWEF) wants.

That sounds like a Q uestion for Hunter BuyDem ,
He has a great deal of experience with both drugs and Russians. Remember the $3 million he got from the former Mayor of Moscows wife. Or the Russian girls trafficked to him when they stole his other laptop for their pimps.

Trump got Three prisoners out of North Korea and gave North Korea nothing.
Obama sent Taliban and Isis terrorists in trade for Bo Bergdahl a converted Muslim and military deserter.

"a bogus charge"? Hardly, she was caught with a THC extract oil, (CBC oil, I think). The Russians have a very low tolerance for dopes using dope. Had she been caught in any number of very strict countries like Taiwan or China she would have been executed after "quick trial'. The evidence against Whelan is incredibly weak. He was found with a thumb drive in his jacket pocket. A real spy isn't carry their stolen data around in their open jacket pocket. It was almost certainly slipped into his pocket.
But then again the head clown making these bad decisions is the guy who poops himself, so what did you really expect?

Great!

Maybe I can post a part of it when I get it all polished up.

I would love to read it.

It's coming along nicely. Slowly as well, but happening. Fear isn't the only push, though. Survival has a hand in it, as well as rational thought and clashes between ideals and ideas.

Write it! That could be popular, and you could sell it on fear alone. The youngers' would buy it, the olders' too.

I wish. It's sad and isolated and lonely to go out to see people but their faces are buried in phones.

I have always believed what was the American way before the touchy-fee lies knee jerked their ways into what is now considered justice, that it is "better for a hundred guilty to go free than that an innocent be punished." Those political prisoners should be brought home and the guilty found and punished later. Even the stupid or unliked innocents need their rights to be protected.

Uh, not to burst your bubble, but collectivism is a relatively recent development. If you think about it, the only way for someone to exist as a looter is for there to first exist a critical mass of others to cover for the lack of production of that individual! And that's over and above what is needed for entire families, so that isn't a trivial number in the dozens or scores. Even kings and rulers had to do their part to negotiate trade deals with neighboring nations, oversee arming soldiers, etc., so they really don't count as looters (in most cases) either.

It's also a mental thing, because most civilizations throughout history until only really in the last 80 years or so have been subsistence economies. The US since WW II has really been one of the first economies in the history of man where the majority of its citizens were so well off that even the poor had creature comforts and could afford to watch copious amounts of television and gorge themselves on fast food. I really don't think "evolution" has had anything to do with it. If anything, society has devolved away from the critical virtues of independence and hard work toward victimization (both of self and of others). Probably the single biggest metric confirming this can be seen in the black communities here in the United States where even before the Civil Rights act of 1964, the black population was generally healthy and happy. Look at it today: it's a wreck - filled with violence, gangs, and fatherlessless.