If I understand you correctly, you are trying to say that you are indeed aware of what is happening. Also, maybe you are trying to say that it is not the state that is at fault but some non-state actors. Correct me if I am wrong.

As far as I am able to gather, Norman Dodd argued that tax exempt foundations' goal was to basically increase their control of society. However, I don't believe he answered the ultimate question of what they were planning to use this control for.

I would argue that they wanted the control so the can transfer society's wealth to themselves more easily and make slaves of the population. I don't think you guys are aware of this.

I would also argue the state also seeks to increase its control over society for the exact same reason. I don't think you guys are aware of this. Just look at all these wars that are happening between states. Hitler specifically said he wanted to take over Soviet Union for 'living space'. The US is in Syria so they can help themselves to their oil. Etc. States are there to steal, rape and pillage. These are criminal gangs.

Also, why would these non-state actors be promoting statism and collectivism? The answer is, they have their people in the state apparatus and they use the machinery of the state to cause the stolen loot to flow to them, at least partially.

If we go back to the initial post by @jack1776, he said the following:
"I’m paying at my ass in taxes while all of these f*&king idiots are getting a freeride. The younger generation has no idea what the government is up to, they don’t know this will cost them their future. "
My view on this would be, @jack1776 doesn't understand the dynamics of the situation. The idiots are just useful idiots. They are not actually getting much of a 'free ride' because they were overcharged by the universities (due to the actions of the state) and now are struggling because of it. So the state is seeking to prevent them from causing political damage by spreading their loss around and having @jack1776 pay for it. There are winners in this story. These are parties that are on the receiving end of the exorbitant payments.
Let's analyze the beneficiaries:
1. Universities have increased tuition fees. This causes the state to receive more taxes.
2. Banks earn profits from the interest charged on student loans. The interest is profit that is taxed (more revenue for the state). Interest goes into buying government bonds, so, government gets to spend more money.
3. In the case of federal student loans, the state earns revenue from the interest charged on these loans.
So, the government is basically up to stealing people's stuff. Don't blame the young students, they are not able to comprehend their situation until they are much older. It will not only cost them in the future, but has already cost them in the past and is costing them right now. This has been going on for thousands of years, nothing is new here. The 'student loan' part of this scheme is just a useful conduit to get the society to agree to this predation. There is a thousand other schemes the state is running at the same time.

You ignore the Norman Dodd evidence of this move to control the history being taught to US students. When you state we are “ignorant of the true purpose of the state “ Tax exempt foundations efforts for Changing the idea that Americans are rugged individualist to collectivists. It was the first sentence in my response.

I was trying to redirect the discussion toward my central thesis (that the state is a looter and its purpose is to predate). So, the thing I was going for was the idea that all generations don't actually realize what is happening. The state dumbs down the population to prevent it from figuring it out. Supposedly, Charlotte was saying the purpose of the dumbing down was so that the population is easier to control. However, my thesis would be that the purpose is so the population doesn't realize they are slaves, and have been for thousands of years, no matter what system rules them.

Charlotte, as well as the rest of you guys, in whatever generation you may be, continue to be ignorant of this true purpose of the state.

The blame for the ignorance does indeed lie with the state's brainwashing program, one part of which is public education.

Why do you think they are pushing collectivism so hard? Because it allows them opportunities to extract wealth and redirect it to themselves more easily.

The original terms? Yes I did, but when the loan gets sold several times and the terms change, what can I do? I paid my debt several times over so don't lump me in with someone who can't become a productive member of society then whine because they think the government should provde.

It comes down to: Did you fulfill the terms of the contract you signed?

If not, it was definitely a handout. As far as being a "release from indentured servitude from a greedy lender", the 'greedy lender' did not release you. He was paid off with taxpayer money - money taken from other people who did not volunteer to take on your debt.

You 'indentured' yourself. You should expect to work it off, as you agreed to. You should NOT expect the rest of us (through our taxes) to pay it off for you.

" I can't do that with my brain." You still have the credential somebody else paid for. I paid for my house myself. Just as I may be able to sell my house at a profit you can leverage that credential for a profit as well by getting a higher paying vocation. If you contracted a loan to obtain a worthless credential, the responsibility is still on you to pay off, not anyone else. In a free market system if enough of these loans defaulted, then lenders would be far more careful of what they fund.

"I'd already repaid the amount borrowed and then some." Yes. It's called interest. That's how loans work. I'm sure that was explained to you before you signed it. I paid more than I borrowed on my house, too, even if I did pay off the loan early. The math is really quite simple: Principle plus interest = more than principle.

I vote against these handouts every chance I get. Unfortunately the siren song of "free stuff" outvotes me and others like me.

Yes but after you paid your house off, you can sell it and recoup money. I can't do that with my brain. My head wasn't in the sand, I knew I had to repay the money, I just didn't expect to repay it seven times over. Not like the punks today looking to skate..... And the folks foced to pay it off???? Like I said, I'd already repaid the amount borrowed and then some. Quit complaining to me because the government is doing what it is doing. You have a voice, vote them out!

Do we take this lightly here at the Gulch? Most posts are hilariously misspelled. I for one do not find the spending of taxpayer income to fund government workers or other peoples secondary education funny at all.
As well, this administration is spending money WE DO NOT HAVE, in case you do not know this, the reason the Federal Government has been having Budget emergencies roughly every 3 months since the Obama Administration is because we are upside down Tax income to Interest on the Debt and they need to borrow from the Federal Reserve Bankers every quarter to pay the Interest Only Bill,

How can this situation be funny to anyone but communists and fascists that can only be ecstatic because they are finally destroying the Republic of the United States of America, as they proclaimed to be doing in the 1950's, from within?

Nicely expressed, Dobrien. However, "Education is now nothing more than workforce training." is hardly even that anymore because, by the time I retired, on the job workforce training of how to actually do something and acquire the simplest skills took place after "education".

Had to add: Of course maybe this is how left wing extremist academia can create jobs for all those useless [name your] Studies degrees that anyone with an IQ above 60 that misspells their own name less than 50% of the time should be able to obtain.

I know this topic has been out a couple of days now, but I just had this thought. If the government is expected to take on the socialist stance and cover tuition, as many of these colleges support, then why doesn't the government confiscate all the wealth some of these ivy league institutions are hoarding and fold it into the treasury? Hey, if these colleges want to go commie, let's help them meet their goals. Let's end their "commie for thee but not for me" BS. Bwaaa ha ha ha!!!

Yes, I went to a grandson's graduation ceremony and a good deal of the program was praising the new DEI leader and her staff. All I could think of was, "Well, there's another half million dollars or more flushed down the toilet." Probably a lot more when you add up all the costs and effects.

I don’t think that is your theory.
Norman Dodd explained this in 1952 when he Found the major tax exempt foundations were intentionally working to change the education system starting with American history. Then .. Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt’s book, “The Deliberate Dumbing Down Of America.” Her painstakingly detailed synopsis of how far our K-12 public education system has fallen and that’s leaving out the last couple of decades, since this book was published in 1999.

Charlotte speaks to “change agents:” Carnegie and John D Rockefeller. The work of Bloom, Kinsey, Skinner, Freire and T. H. Bell provided the ingredients for future moral chaos with which we are struggling today. National Education Association, UNESCO, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, way before Obama created the most division in our country’s history since the Civil War.

People have been taught in American schools that there are only tangible rewards for correct answers. Students are simply human capital. Education is now nothing more than workforce training. “Operant conditioning” or “behavioral modification” as a means of instruction. Mastery learning and outcome based education. Schools are training kids to perform like Pavlov's dog.

In 1991 Charlotte recognized through her work at the US Department of Education, that they’re using schools to change America from an individual nation to a socialist global state, they brainwash the children starting a birth to reject individualism in favor of collectivism, to reject American values in favor of international values and globalism. 1991! It’s the same today, just way less secret parents!

I am ok with Universities who are selling young students a worthless education being sued to get their money back.NIFO

BOHICA! (Bend Over Here It Comes Again) LOL

+1. Yep, that about sums it up.

It was a handout first to the bankster cartel effective in 1913.
Then the banksters loaned money they created from nothing (thanks to their corruption of con-gress) to you for profit.
You contracted to pay it back.
Your education cost was insanely high because of such loans and you decided to pay it.
You had that choice.
You didn't decide that I would pay it for you and I made no such agreement.
Corrupt government then bought your vote with a handout in spite of the contract you made and sent me the bill for the handout.
D.C. NIFO

"...what I didn't expect was to be 55 years old and still paying a debt that was 20 years old." Really? Why not? Was your head in the sand when you took the money? I was 29 when I took that mortgage and knew I'd be 59 when it was paid off if I made the expected payments on schedule (I was actually 40 when I paid it off early). NOBODY was forced by the government to bail me out because I paid it off myself. That's how borrowing money is supposed to work.

Side note: Your major is irrelevant because YOU took the money, not the folks forced to pay it off.

I respectfully disagree because I chose IT and not Gender Studies, You chose your house at that interest rate, chose my loan at my interest rate, what I didn't expect was to be 55 years old and still paying a debt that was 20 years old. I thank no one but myself for where I am now....

I'll not judge, but that's how borrowing money to accomplish a goal works. Depending on interest rates a 30 year mortgage can add up to over twice the initial cost of the house (when I bought my house rates were 12.5% and I made many extra payments to get out from under it early). Based on your logic, I could have just made 16 years of "qualifying" payments and the bank should simply let me off for the rest and I keep the house. Maybe instead of going into debt, which was YOUR decision, you should have taken up a trade like welding, plumbing, electrician, or auto mechanic. So it looks like those welders, plumbers, electricians, and auto mechanics are now being nicked to cover your debt. Don't forget to thank them.

I have had my debt forgiven through this program. Does that mean I am a socialist? Before you judge, let me say that I have made 16 years worth of qualifying payments, and with the interest I paid, I put in more than twice what I borrowed. So I repaid the original amount and had the rest, $25k or so, "forgiven." So was it a handout or a release from my indentured servitude from a greedy lender?

The misses and I both paid our undergrad and graduate tuition out of pocket.
I want our money back.
You see this is how this facist regime rewards honest hard working legal Americans. Right up the @$$.
All I want is to be treated as well as an illegal criminal alien.

for some....

yup
the book The Deep Hot Biosphere spells that out

Normally I'd comment, but this just made me too sick to type much.