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A Gulch?

Posted by Lysander 10 years, 3 months ago to Government
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Looking for the most free state or country to move to. Which US state would be best? Which nation?


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  • Posted by helidrvr 10 years, 3 months ago
    There simply is no definitive answer to this question due first of all to your failure to define "free". Once you complete that definition however you will no doubt find that there is no single location which will satisfy all your criteria.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 10 years, 3 months ago
    I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the Free State Project. Without going into its history and methodology in detail, that group selected New Hampshire and actively seeks like minded folks to join them. Anyone interested should google it.
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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hope you are feeling well again soon.

    Having spent time as an elected county supervisor, the most difficult thing about having a gulch in plain site is compliance with state & federal mandates. We would need to find a way around them and then it would be possible.
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    Posted by barwick11 10 years, 3 months ago
    The only way to achieve this in my mind is this:

    1) Pick a state with sufficient liberty-leaning population.
    2) Move there with as many influential and wealthy people as you can. Bring as many liberty-minded people as you can with you.
    3) Get a 60-70% majority of libertarian-voting populace
    4) Champion an individual with some balls for Governor, elect him/her and a vast majority of libertarians to the state legislature.
    5) Declare null and void within the State's borders "all federal laws, orders, regulations, statutes, etc, that do not have direct or clearly implied authority stated in the US Constitution", and enforce criminal penalties on any person trying to enforce those laws within the state.
    6) Pass a State law that collects all Federal taxes on behalf of the IRS, determines what percentage of that income is going to pay for unconstitutional programs, send that % amount back to the taxpayer, and forward the rest directly to the IRS.
    7) When the Federal Government comes whining, stand your ground and absolutely do not back down.
    8) When other States see that they can reclaim the Federalist principles, sit back and watch as they copy what you just did.
    9) Live in a free nation once again with 50 little mini-laboratories of Government.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 3 months ago
    My home state of Alabama ain't bad (trying to sound Southern here). I can open carry here, though I prefer concealed.
    We do have a state tax and a core of Southern Baptists who successfully resist state-run lotteries and keep casinos confined to Indian reservations.
    Not to mention a scattering of dry counties. A job kept me stuck in one of those for seven freaking years!
    Bama ain't bad but it could be freer.
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  • Posted by katrinam41 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If this bunch of brains can't manage a Gulch in plain sight, then there is no hope for a Gulch. I do apologize for being gone from commenting so long. Health issues escalated and culminated in a massive heart attack on Christmas Eve. We've been thinking TX for a bit now, and this is the final good reason to go. My daughter is here from San Antonio to help get me back on my feet, and by this time next year, we should be Texans. If others have good suggestions, I'm happy to discuss and contribute ideas. I've missed participating these past few months!
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not really a problem. It's nukes that NZ doesn't like. US is NZ's 3rd largest trading partner after China and Australia. (I lived there for 2 years.)
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  • Posted by RonC 10 years, 3 months ago
    I have read through this thread and many others like it. There is a great dissatisfaction in the land. Something all of them have in common, there is never a call to action.

    We can be so thoughtful in our writings, so diligent in our references, and so accurate in our histories; and at the same time, really the same thought, we are void of action. As empty as the chair Clint Eastwood addressed. In that circumstance nothing will happen except the slow progressive incrementalism employed by government in the taking of freedoms. Until the opposition is organized into action, all of this is simply a conversation.

    There is a tale of warning in my message. Our benevolent government is so digitized and organized that any communication by electronic means is not secure. Any movement on public highways is observed. The 21st century revolutionaries will have to communicate by courier and travel be foot or horseback not to be observed or overheard in the planning and execution of a campaign. Essentially, we would have to learn from our foreign enemies how to negate the immense technological advantage the FBI, NSA, CIA, Military, IRS, NHS, and other agencies bring to bear. As many have feared, if they bring that to bear on our own all is lost.
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 3 months ago
    the state does not exist to chose. as for a country just get a sail boat and be your own country.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You said it, robert. There are no countries with the level of freedom that the States United posessed under the Articles of Confederation or the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) assuming the 'law of the land' was observed, obeyed, and enforced.
    If we want it, we have to do it all over again.
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  • Posted by robertmbeard 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Keep in mind these rankings are only for economic freedoms -- property rights, business freedom, taxes, spending (responsible or not), trade, etc... This ranking doesn't extend to all political and personal freedoms (speech, assembly, religion, self-defense and gun ownership, etc...

    Also, you will note that it is a composite score that equally weights all categories, in order to avoid subjectively trying to pick which economic freedoms are more important. So, my general takeaway, is that Australia and Canada are modestly better on fiscal discipline, monetary policy, trade, business regulations, and govt corruption. They are comparable in taxes and worse on things like govt control of health care, restricting freedoms. I was unaware of the gun restrictions but am not really surprised.

    So, unlike colonial America, there is no current country with full respect for all freedoms, but there are a few that are further away from financial bankruptcy like we are in the USA...
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thats only an "economic freedom" ranking. It doesn't account for how much higher economic freedom would have been if people had gun rights.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Only one of the highly ranked places listed has a small enough population for a chance of democratic change of government to real freedom: NZ.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In both Canada and Australia you can't own guns so I find their high scores of "freedom" weird.
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  • Posted by terrycan 10 years, 3 months ago
    I'm not ready to go Galt yet. Believe we should be more involved in local and state politics. If I do go Galt. I believe it is possible to create a Gulch hidden in plain sight.
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  • Posted by robertmbeard 10 years, 3 months ago
    The annual Index of Economic Freedom may interest you: http://www.heritage.org/index/
    The US ranks 12th, using data through summer 2013. Australia and Canada rank higher in composite score but not in every category...

    As far as US states, there are 7 with no state income tax (TX, FL, WY, AK, SD, WA, NV) and 2 that only tax investment income (TN, NH).
    The annual Economic Freedom of North America, put out by the Fraser Institute, tries to rank US states, Canadian provinces, and now Mexican states, using data through the end of 2012 (see free download on bottom of webpage): https://www.fraserinstitute.org/publicat...
    Alberta, Canada always scores high, as well as most of the no income tax states listed above (especially Texas)...
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  • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 3 months ago
    There as been some lengthy discussions on this topic. I can't name the places but if you search back to maybe September 2014 you will find a couple long threads. Hope this helps.
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