I think you're postulating an alternative future track based on the assumption that less government involvement would have inevitably resulted in cheaper, safer cars.

While that MAY be true, we can't know that, because we haven't been down that future track. It's pure conjecture.

But to claim that cars 'aren't safer now' is patently absurd!

They might have become EVEN MORE safe if the free market had been free-er to respond, but cars today are NOT 'less safe' than they were decades ago!

I don't understand how you can make that assertion. Explain or elaborate, please? Thanks!

either you did not understand my position or you are wrong. Government mandates have slowed invention, and therefore safety devices which have made us less safe and increases are cost.

Spot on, Robbie! I see at least a 10% variation from tank to tank throughout the year in my '04 Prius... 39mpg to 44 or so, up and down, yet my 'driving style' doesn't change that much... just the month I gas up. I usually go to the same station, too, but on a few occasions noticed that one or two 'inconveniently located' stations end up providing a tankful of higher fuel mileage.

And that doesn't even address all of the OTHER negative impacts of Gasohol, either!

dbh....
Completely disagree with that assertion...

Virtually all of the cost/price increases we see in current models COME FROM all of the extra stuff that's been mandated IN by government regs and/or market/consumer pressure to deliver the safest, most reliable, least-maintenance, lowest-polluting vehicles possible.

The EPA obsoleted the simple, fix-it-yourself carburetors after about 1973 because ONLY an electronically-controlled fuel injection system could control fuel mixtures accurately enough to 'meet exhaust specs.'

Electronic ignition supplanted the 'obsolete' points/plugs/rotor/distributor mechanism for similar reasons... near-perfect timing of the ignition was required to meet pollution specs and not screw up the catalytic converters (more cost, lower pollution) with any raw gas getting into the exhaust system.

Air bags and front crumple zones to protect drivers and passengers WAY beyond what simple lap-belts could do in the mid 1960's, too.

Rigid chasses and roll-bar protection combined with soft bumpers that wouldn't tear up the underlying chassis in minor collisions... ditto.

"The Whole World Is A Tradeoff" and these kinds of lists are perfect examples of how and where those changes to our cars came from and evolved.

Or go back far enough and notice that fractured wrists and hands became less commonplace after the advent of the built in self-starter motor in cars, too...

:)

Sam, back then there were rumors that the EPA 'calculated' gas mileage by analyzing all of the combustion by-products coming out the exhaust pipe and inferring from that an MPG calculation.

Someone said that was like measuring rainfall by weighing the earth before and after a storm...

You may be right. That's why I didn't put a huge deposit down to reserve one.

My motorcycle (HD sportster) gets about 80 mpg on the highway, and from what I can tell the Elio is basically a 3-wheel motorcycle with protection from the elements. Safety features be damned. If I can get about the same mileage as my bike, but with protection from the elements, ac/heat and a radio then count me in.

That is my kind of humor! Lol

I understand your reservations about committing to buying a car before seeing and test driving it. However, the price is so low ($6800 base model) and the engineering/business case was solid enough to allay any of my typical concerns.

They have a 4th generation prototype they have been driving around the country on a tour to show it off. It has a production-ready chassis and body but a placeholder Geo Metro engine. The prototype engine was undergoing final assembly prior to testing back in early November by the engine supplier IAV. Barring any significant increase in final engine weight, the overall vehicle weight is about 1230 pounds (base model), which is just over half the weight of a typical entry level small car...

They purchased (for pennies on the dollar) the old GM manufacturing plant and its equipment in Shreveport, Louisiana, where the big GM Hummer vehicles were made years ago. Louisiana is a right-to-work state. They also have a long list of established North American suppliers, which results in over 90% North American content in the vehicle.

As far as the coffin shape is concerned, that is a result of the aerodynamic design. Any small car that tangos with a large truck will instantly become a coffin. The Elio just conveniently is already shaped like a coffin; so, they can just drag you over to your final gravesite and plop you in, car and all... (I couldn't resist throwing in some humor there...).

I know someone that still has one of these old Honda's and they still get 48 - 50 mpg when they do drive it. They were not at all like the newer honda's, these old ones were just cheap basic transportation. The cars they used to make before their facelift and image improvment, (and cost increase). Another friend of mine had a one of the first CRX sport models. he got around 50 with it. He took it into the dealer to get it serviced and they would not touch it. Saying the induction system was not anything they had seen before. He sold the car, then a year later went to buy another it never got better then 30 mpg. We still think he had some expreimental car. After all he bought it in Marysville where they make Honda's and have experimental models on their test track there.

My son has a matrix....a super car......but anything made by Toyota is first class.

I have flown and designed model aircraft for about 25 years and I would think that they would be better off streamlining the front suspension in to 1 continuous front end, rather than have all those struts hanging out in the wind and the big holes that have to be there to allow the suspension out of the side of the body. You have a lot of induced drag for every part of that and especially at connections.....as has been discussed several times already though...drag is not much of an issue until you grt to about 40 or 45 MPH.

Yes...then the EPA stepped in and the equivalent Honda model gets mileage in the high 30's or low 40's, I believe.

And everyone gets excited over 40+ MPG in a "hybrid"...what lunacy!

Because it has 3 wheels, it is classified as a motorcycle instead of an automobile by most states and the Feds. That helps somewhat on fedgov requirements. It exceeds all safety requirements for motorcycles and is comparable to all other super lightweight, compact cars, in that respect... I forget the exact vehicle weight target, but it will likely be one of the lightest vehicles around...

+1 Right, Robbie. Drag will have a significant effect at highway speeds, and very little below 45mph.

+1 Yes, lowering the cross section is the method, and it will help. If they cut drag by 50% they could see 20-25% better mpg at freeway speeds compared to a similar weight/powered vehicle.
I hope they can achieve the objectives and find a ready market for their product.
I see their specs include a 900cc 55hp 55ftlb engine. That should provide decent performance if they keep weight low enough which is also required for 84mpg.
they may also be able to avoid some fedgov requirements if it is considered/registered a motorcycle, not a car.

Air resistance (drag) is proportional to speed squared and to cross-sectional frontal area of the vehicle slamming through the air. Most small, lightweight, high mileage, 2 seat cars have a typical side-by-side seating arrangement; so, the reduction in cross-sectional frontal area is not that dramatic versus a typical 4 seat sedan. In the case of the Elio 2-seater, a tandem seating arrangement is used, in order to cut the cross-sectional frontal area in half; so, it looks like half a car. By doing this, air drag is cut in half from all other high mileage cars.

Yes, the other big variable in overall system efficiency is the weight of the vehicle. But the Elio is doing what no other car does because it is aggressively minimizing air drag by using a tandem seating arrangement to minimize the frontal area...

Since the Elio is a brand new American company and American made vehicle, I wouldn't be surprised if it falls a little short of 84 mpg highway. But they are on their 4th generation vehicle prototype for the chassis, body, etc... So, their aggressive design goals for a lightweight, aerodynamic vehicle appear to be achievable. All that is left is the weight and efficiency of the 3 cylinder gas engine.

It should be exciting to see how it turns out...

There are as many reasons for buying a certain car as there are people who buy them. Since I have been driving longer than some of you may be alive, I'm pretty used to a bare-bones vehicle. My first car was a '53 Ford Mainline. Stick shift, 6 cylinders, radio and heater. In my case, I buy a car to get from A to B with relatively good mileage, and comfort. Being a very experienced driver, I don't need a back-up camera, or a GPS device. I check out the type of car that will accommodate my disabilities, get the best deal my negotiating skills allow (they are formidable skills if I do say so myself). Once the car is bought, I establish a relationship with the chief repair guy by various means and usually get excellent service. Easy-Peasy. To me, getting a car for its utility rather than its prestige is the way to go. From then on, careful maintenance allows me to usually keep it for a minimum of ten years. By then, it doesn't owe me a thing.

My hubby is an powertrain engineer at Ford. He comes home all the time with stories of new unfunded government mandates.
There are a lot more of them than you think.