I said nothing about the standard they set. I talked about them as characters in a novel.

Yes it does. If you have what you think is a better interpretation of the Galt quote then make your argument, but please let's not play this childish game of "nuh-uh" "uh-huh".

No it doesn't.

A non-sequitur is a statement that does not follow from the previous one. The John Galt quote was not a non sequitur and spoke directly to the "psychological pain" you assert all will suffer if they attempt to live up the standards by which the iconic hero's of Atlas Shrugged do.

That's not even what I said.

In Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, Dominique Francon was a producer precisely because she chose well in Howard Roark. No other or better definition of "producer" with respect to her is necessary.

You're good at looking up definitions. It is hard to understand why you've not bothered to look up the meaning of non-sequitur. If you cannot understand that psychological pain is to be fought and thrown aside, not to be accepted as a part of one's soul and as a permanent scar across one's view of existence, then no amount of avoidance of improved character, no amount of running away from yourself will keep you from enduring psychological pain. If being heroic is unrealistic for you, this is your - as you would define it - religious belief. What is true for you is true for you.

Thanks for the non-sequitur.

""Dagny, it's not that I don't suffer, it's that I know the unimportance of suffering. I know that pain is to be fought and thrown aside, not to be accepted as part of one's soul and as a permanent scar across one's view of existence."

~John Galt~

Eddie Willers is a producer. He used his own mind and worked hard.

It is dangerous to try to classify ourselves based on a scale of the characters of the book, as they are romanticized and don't reflect reality 1 for 1. Essentially, they are an unrealistic standard to live up to and it will only cause psychological pain to try to.

Small clarification, I know that in no way I am not a producer, more like an Eddie Willers

Well, I for one participate in my church and in the scouting programs with teens in particular when I am not working to pay for my families home and food.

I like teenagers. Even my own kids. My wife struggles with them then, I struggle with them when they are small, until about 4-6 somewhere in there where you can start to have some reasoned discussions with your kids.

I do it for several reasons
* I enjoy it.
* I do think the youth are where we will have to go to help turn things around. It wont happen in a few years, it will take decades to do it right, just as it has taken decades to move us away from being a free people.
* If I can influence one youth to learn about self preparedness and self reliance its one person who will be better off.

I have a few stories around this most involve camping with scouts or boys from my church. Some good experiences.

I think the key is to become active with people around you. A board like this is great for chat, but if you really want to make a difference go out and practice your philosophy with and around others. If for you that is an event that you organize in your town, do it.