no juanita. this is what always happens on these posts. If you ask logical questions or demand reasoned answers, someone gets their feelings hurt. it's never the atheists either! Just because people reject religion does not mean they are making fun of you or your choices. but on this site, you're going to be faced with that dissonance. It's an Objectivist site. but challenging you is NOT making fun of you.

I am always struck by the sloppy journalism in such anecdotal cases. The author assumes the causal connection between the prayer and the happy result. No attempt is made to verify by citation to studies on this topic. In fact there are dozens and dozens of studies on the issue and they uniformly show no proven "prayer effect." Why is the most outrageous conclusion, intervention by mysterious invisible forces summoned telepathically, assumed?

Who insulted you. You called me ignorant.

If you remove the religious reference "Holy Now" Peter Mayer....I think you'll enjoy.

I am the last of my lineage....I, unfortunately, share your grief. Pax Tecum...

Perhaps.

I made it half way through. It has been said in South Africa: A ton of earth must be mined to find a diamond. I found that "diamond" at the halfway point ..."Right Relations". A very good read....enjoy.

Maybe.....this is God's way! (Sarcastic font lock inop.)

This is an extremely difficult argument to refute. No one who agrees with AR regarding sacrifice could ever accept Christianity, for which the centerpiece of the entire worldview revolves around sacrifice.

I leave that up to auto correct. But I would never intentionally go out of my way to upper case pope.

I'll have to check this one out. I am unfamiliar with that.

I was simply trying to stir some honest research. Insulting me adds nothing to the debate. At the end of the day, There is more hard proof for my belief. ~~~~~~~ I am 62, Herb and delve into quantum physics for much proof.

Was that directed at me?

I'm so sorry to hear this. There is nothing worse. :(...

Omg why are you assuming so many things? If God intervenes when someone prays (but only sometimes not always), but there's also supposed to be free will then why doesn't he intervene to stop bad stuff and only (sometimes) after something bad happens. Intervening at all is counter to free will. So which is it? That's my point. I never ever ever said or implied he was good or bad. I haven't even implied that he IS at all. I'm trying to understand the rationale of prayer answering vs free will. (Twice now you've said that I must believe God is evil. Stop making stuff up, Robbie!)

Then where does prayer answering come in?

In that case, I don't accept anything that isn't based in logic.

YOU'RE telling ME to read more. Been there done that. You're turn.

"Sent his son", I have an extremely hard time with this. It's so brutal and seems so wrong to make that your child's plight. His own son had no "free will in the matter", he didn't want to do it, but did out if obligation, to "save everyone else" from their sins. (Talk about pressure and guilt. What kind of parent saddles their kid with that?) That's a mind twister, and cruel as hell. And how do you remove a sin? If you did something wrong or evil, then it remains, you can't change what has already happened. Forgiving just means you'll pretend it didn't happen for the sake peace going foward. "He gave his only begotten son"... it wasn't His life to give. Or take.

Hello gaiagal:
It wasn't my dying child, it was my dead child. Sure, I would have liked to have had a miracle even though I don't believe in them. My scream of rage and agony wasn't a cry for help from God. And Khaling is right, reality is inexorable.

My goodness, you are as sensitive as a sunburn on a rash. You can express your faith, or opinion without the bellicosity. That attitude merely turns people off. As an atheist, if I treat you politely even if I disagree with you you'll have more tendency to hear me out, than if I go around trying to get religious items such as the 10 Commandments banned.

By the way, I think that we have only begun to understand the universe and the vast coincidences that have caused intelligent life on Earth to come about may even reconcile quantum physics with consciousness. So, you and I while coming from different starting points, may actually meet up one day. (More likely with someone younger than me.)

By the way, Mr. Misenterpreter, I do not refer to myself as an atheist. You have taken liberties with my position. I don't know if there is or isn't a God. I have no proof either way. I grew up in a religious home. I have since come to the logical conclusion that religion as I've known it and witness it does not make sense. Too many unanswered questions and too much based on maybes. Too much to get into, but I won't live my one for sure life living for a perceived higher power. I am my own highest power and the life I live is moral and good. Because it is in my rational self interest to be so. So that's two names you've called me on this thread. Not very Christian like either.

I refuse to mark things as sarcasm. One should be able to tell. This is the gulch, not the Huffington post.

This is a good story with a happy ending. Those who believe will find additional value in it. But even we who do not believe rejoice with the mother and her son.

For more info on this phenomenon, please read the book Lazarus Effect by Sam Parnia. The record is held by a Japanese woman who apparently was dead for about 8 hours overnight in a cold Japanese forest. She was revived successfully with substantial (80%?) return of functionality. (No indication of prayer being involved in this instance.)

Jan