Sometimes I wonder just what was in that stuff the Baby Boomers were smoking in the 60s and 70s.

Absolutely! Trade schools should come back! They have been replaced by technical "colleges" giving everyone degrees in everything. Now you don't go to trade school to learn plumbing, you get a degree in plumbing or a degree in cosmetology. What? Its the same thing (maybe with more term papers) but we can charge more money for it by calling it a "degree". Frankly, giving people bachelor's or master's degrees in what used to be things learned trade school cheapens the idea of a degree for all of us that earned an actual Bachelor or Master of an Art or Science.

Rights are inextricably linked to responsibilities of use. Rights get revoked as responsibilities are abrogated. This is the concept of justice.

Value is the association of outcome with decision-making but always predicates the existence of at least two options - even if the options are simply to participate or not. Value is only present where an agent of change is present.

i would agree that trade schools need to come back. HOwever I would apply "trade school" mentality to a lot of modern jobs.

Trade schools use to train Plumbers and Electricians. I would make the argument that in addition to that Trade schools should train Web designers, IT staff and most skilled services and nearly all other programmers. The vast majority of the jobs that exist in the tech industry would benefit from a apprenticeship and trade school approach.

Much of the 'Manufacturing" in the world is now manufacturing "stuff" in a virtual world rather than a physical world. While the exact discipline is different the learning process that is needed is similar.

FYI: I grew up the son of a general contractor. I loved computers and ended up managing technical teams. I have exposure to electrical work but not plumbing. Those are about the two most knowledge intensive trades I have been around. I would put either up against the knowledge intensity of a web designer. Very different application of very different knowledge but the same basic system of apprenticeship and trade school would work for all three.

What about in addition to removing unwanted government regulation, we promoted the more widespread use of trade colleges?

America is a debt and service economy. It would be better served by being a manufacturing economy again. This too is overly simplistic, but I think my point is made.

There is another aspect to this.

I am a business manager. I have managed entry level technology oriented positions for 15+ years. At least 50% of the people I manage today over the last 5 years that are entry level are in India rather than the US.

Costs are lower in India, but why? Compliance with government regulation is the biggest reason. To put some numbers in that are purely fictional

US person starting pay 10k a year
India starting pay 6.6k a year.

India overhead (building, harddware, lights... regulation taxation...) 12%.
US overhead 48%

US costs 14.8k
Inidia costs 7.2k

Its a bit simplified but it illustrates a point often not brought up. Many of our entry level positions are overseas, with a very large part of the driving force to put them there taxation and regulation expenses.

Even with the recession had we not passed things like Sarbanes Oxley back all the way to affirmative action there would be a great deal more entry level tech jobs in the US today.

Affordable Health Care Act is aggravating this even further. I thought we would see jobs start to pull back as the Indian economy improved and wages increased. Its not happening because as fast as the wages are going up in India, the cost of regulation and taxation are going up nearly as fast to make up the difference.

coffee is good for you, the sugar no

When these kids were born the doctor should have smacked the parents! I sure hope there are many more like Snoogoo!

Nice, it's not all bad... there is a growing group of Libertarians, although the state is still overwhelmingly blue. You don't have to travel far to get away from all of the people. The cold helps to keep the population in check lol.

This is hilarious.

I live/work in Ann Arbor - The Peoples Republic of Ann Arbor as we call it. Kudos to you for stopping the KoolAid. My previous post is in reference to U of M grads. You clearly are the exception. I am likley three times your age but still thirst for knowledge. Welcome to the Gulch.

just watch Watters' World on O'Reilly, and ignorant
comes to mind. -- j

it's really sad that 71 percent have a bad view of
voting;;; it is just about 4th on my list of essentials
after food, water, clothing and shelter. -- j

It was just my stream of thought which can take a lot of U turns.. I am in agreement with you that rights exist, just not everyone chooses to acknowledge them. What are rights without value? I believe there is an inherent value to life that is natural and leads to the idea of rights. Do you forfeit your rights if you voluntarily forfeit your value? If the purpose of your life is to destroy the lives of others, do you still have natural rights? I'll have to ponder it more when I'm not working...

It is the educated and intelligent people of mine own generation who puzzle me.

I think that Snoogoo has elegantly described a crucial dichotomy in liberal thinking: They work daily at building the temple to business, but they kneel at the alter of socialism.

Out of 17 employees at our Calif office, 6 are pure liberal (demog: 4 are Millennial; 2 are older). All of them are brilliant (Cal Tech level brilliant). All of them work for a bootstrap company whose business is run pretty transparently - so our travails in clawing our way up the business ladder are obvious. This has made no philosophical impression on them - in spite of the fact that they are producers in a small company, struggling with the reality of business...their ideology is intact, untouched by their experience.

On the happier side, we have a closet Randist, three fiscal-conservative/social liberals (who happen to be the Director of Finance, President, and me) and a bunch of people who have had a lot of contact with reality during their lives...though I am not sure of their political alignments.

But the compartmentalism that Snoogoo describes is interesting and enigmatic.

Jan

The principles existed, whether or not the civilizations throughout time chose to accept it as such. Reality exists independent of us, we can only choose to recognize it for what it is or not.

No idea where you're going with the "even more basic principle" line, so you'll have to just surprise me.

Thank you for the recommendation. I had way too much coffee and sugar this morning.. can you tell? So much to learn, so much to do.

Snoogoo,
you are showing some perceptiveness, i congratulate you for that.
your parents generation products of the 60's were idealists and then they learned that they had to work so the ventured towards capitalism, but stayed liberal. even though liberalism has blatantly shown that it is not good they persist in their thinking hence the delusional one living at 1600 what ever street. on this web site we all have read some of Ayn Rand, and I think that there are volumes of her writings to read however, I also strongly recommend BASTIAT. He to in my opinion was a genius when it came to economics and government interference. As for you becoming a politician I did not expect you to accept the idea. Good luck with your endeavors and avoid the governrnent as much as possible.

"Do we not argue that humans maintain absolute rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?" Yes, but that idea was not inherent and for most of human history, this was not a given. Still today, it really only applies to the "We" of the Western world. What is an even more basic principle these absolute rights derive from?

Wow. Nice perspective. Thank you for the insight.

Jan

Good for you.