how did we get the Patriot Act rocky? every time I argued against it, the loudest supporters who shot me down incidentally with the loudest, anti-reason arguments including that I was invoking nazism, were Conservatives. I work with Conservatives politically everyday. I have made many arguments for why Objectivists should find where we intersect and I have said Conservatives are principled. Did you support the birth of the Homeland Security? TSA? I'm just curious.

Boy, do you have a 'knack' for doubling down!
First it was "Plenty of Conservatives see no problem with this."
And now it is "We hear it on this site quite frequently."
And the coup de grace: "...but with friends like this who needs enemies? "

I see a perfect opportunity to leave this site...'of my own free will'. Consider it done!

We hear it on this site quite frequently. No I am not saying it is just conservatives, but with friends like this who needs enemies?

I have NO clue what you are mentioning.

" Several there are [very] bullish on a national ID."

'Several' is just barely more than one, and a hell of a lot smaller than 'most'. You have made your disdain for Conservatives more than plain, and pick your words accordingly.

Just my humble opinion.....

I, as a Conservative, am tired of certain posters that have the opinion that the first thing that I do each morning, is to lace up my "law and order" jackboots.
Any other Conservatives feel the 'jab'?

Just my opinion....

Godwin's law doesn't apply. I was at the beginning of the discussion. Godwin's law says the longer the online discussion.............

so, if someone accused you of Godwin's Law for making this statement, how would you respond?

he is reacting to a conversation I had with several conservatives this afternoon.

exactly, abaco.

I am in a FB group of Conservative/libertarians. Several there are vry bullish on a national ID. They see no problem with this and think I exaggerate potential or surety of abuse. the white star in the corner which your DL soon will have to have is chillingly evocative of some other stars certain people had to have. maybe this time it means "patriot"? I was accused of Godwin's Law. which I did invoke. I'd like people to wake up and understand when they cheerfully argue for the loss of my freedom in any capacity-I might not be civil.

I tend to think that a lot of people who label themselves as conservatives will go for this.

Wasn't it the news lady Megan Kelly who recently said that sometimes you need a little big brother? (Fox News) The media sets the agenda, whether we like it or not. The Neocons have been leading us down the left trail like a bunch of blind hikers. They are typically pretty statist, IMO. Let's see how this develops...

My question was 'why does your two sided coin ALWAYS land Conservative side up?'

Your 'nothing wrong, nothing to fear' is exactly what I hear from the Progressives I know...I have never heard it from my Republican friends.

If that is your opinion, then state that. Don't infer that the article makes the same claim...because it doesn't.
Just my humble opinion...! ;-)

I suspect the Fed gov't will make sure the states are compliant in time, giving them an extension if necessary, to avoid the bad publicity. If it happens that way it stays under the radar.

"Of course, this is another chain they put around your ankle tying you to your govt as its slave." Well written k. Soon we'll all need permission to leave our (government-owned) homes every morning.

They are called "internal passports"... reminds me of the heady days of East Germany and the good ol' USSR...

Isn't all this "Safety and Security" the oolest and most wonderful thing ever??!! It was cheap, too... all it cost us was a little more of that stuff called Freedom... Doesn't matter, as we've been giving that stuff up for a while now, a little teeny chunk at a time, for some more of that wonderful "Safety and Security"...

I feel Soooo safe.

Sure they are two side of the same totalitarian coin. But the law and order republicans always want to say "if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear." Tell that to Gibson Guitars, or the people caught up in the IRS scandal. Wrong is a moral questions, not a legal question.

"Plenty of Conservatives see no problem with this."

There isn't a single reference in the article to either Conservatives and/or Republicans.
Why do you make that inference, then?

I suggest that the Progressives "see no problem with this", even though they aren't mentioned either. The article supports my statement just as much as yours.
Just my humble opinion....

Hmmm, I just started reading State of Terror by John Brown...and it begins by talking about the REAL ID. gah!