... the greater the probability that someone in it will compare his opponent to Nazis, thereby immediately losing the argument.

I agree that Godwin's law doesn't apply, but only because nobody here has yet taken up TSA's side of the argument.

They might as well change the name of our country to the Soviet Union and have done.

I can't tell you how much I love this. I'll be flying in early March. If you're in the Atlanta airport, listen closely; you might hear baaaaaaa.

A good example of why we cannot afford to "label" ourselves into a box. "Conservatives love to bleat about "freedom" yet their "freedom" is based on crap like this. A National Passport. As stated, this leads us right to the fascist nation where you are tracked and controlled by big brother. Has anyone thought of how this "passport" will work? A chip of course. A chip that will have all your personal data on it, that they can use for what they want, as well as can be stolen with ease because the buffoons in government are so far behind the criminals. This will have a very bad end for all of us, on so many levels. And no one will object in any real fashion...

Biometric data is only collected on foreign visitors entering the US and Lawful Permanent residents, The onlu exception to that rule is Global Entry where the applicant identity is confirmed by fingerprint at the time of entry. When a person applies for a passport biometric data is not taken and the biometric data they talk about is the information on the passport. This is to prevent fraud by altering the biographic information. meaning name dob sex etc..

I agree 100% and you point is well taken.

;-)

Oooh, I've never seen Rich get fired up before.. I kinda like it.

Oh I won't argue with you there.

Now you are back tracking. You asked if I was worried because he was brown skinned and on a laptop. I explained that he was acting strange. If TSA is a response to 9/11 and the threats from Al quaida the men of middle eastern descent should be considered more of a threat than young white women. I don't consider TSA to be professionals because of political correctness. We are not safer today than pre 9/11.

Didn't say that either.What I do say is I'm not a professional and I'm not going to assume I know their job better than they do.

Sure. And this is why the GOP is struggling so. Internally, it is divided. One faction wants more TSA, internal passports, warrantless wiretapping, and forced medical treatments (because there are people in caves who want to kill us and we're all going to die of measles and it's patriotic to submit because you've done nothing wrong, right?). The other side doesn't want those things. This is what I've seen. Perhaps I'm all wrong.

Are you kidding me? You actually think a 14 year old girl with a pink back pack is a greater threat than the man I described? What the hell kind of criteria would you use?

That's specifically why I retired at age 59 at the end of 2001 (remember 9/11). Business travel requiring a flight was no longer any fun any more and I flew a lot. Now when we fly my wife gets quite angry (almost mad) at me because I make these sounds like sheep while standing in lines. Baaahh, baaaa, baahhaa. I've met a lot of people in these lines that don't have much of a sense of humor. Sometimes I tell them about how we've given up our freedom resulting in standing in these lines, sometimes not. The early retirement was scary but actually proved to be fantastic anyway. Teach your kids to save for their future.

Yes, but it is a contradiction for a state to keep you safe by violating your rights. The state's on responsibility it to protect your rights, which will keep you safe most of the time.

My humor way over your head, huh? Actually I was doing what they do. When someone says you're doing something wrong or stupid, you turn it around and put it back on them (liberals are professionals at this tactic). Republicans were accused of wanting to require ID's to vote in order to keep the poor and (illegal) aliens from voting. I turned that around and accuse the Dems (TSA) of keeping the poor and (illegal) aliens from flying. Funny, huh? Maybe? Maybe not... Forgive me, I'm tired.

How so? this is sveral differnt issues in one. Does the state have the right to regulate the free movement of its citizens I would agree that the answer is NO. Is there a responsability of teh state to keep us safe I would argue yes. So there is the dilema., Stating a fact is not hypocritical. The comment was meant to be sarcastic in showing that how in one instance they require something on its face is lawful and a matter of personal freedom, the second the voting issue is a matter of one vote from one with the lawful ability to do so. Personally I rate your comment+10 as well for no other reason that I will consider your view and respect it.

As long as we have to act like WWII German citizens, we might as well change the TSA uniform to jack boots and brown shirts.
Also, I used to work in the sea port industry. In order to maintain access to the port we had to get a Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC) issued by TSA. This card had all kinds of secutity measures including a holographic background and a chip loaded with biometric info. Sounds secure, right? A few months after mine was issued the fed database crashed so that the feds could not verify anything (apparently they must have had some IRS computer techs on loan to the TSA. Backups? We don't need no stinking backups!) Anyway, when I flew, just for the fun of it I would show my TWIC when the TSA yahoo would ask for my papers. Half the time they (THE TSA EMPLOYEE) would not accept their own issued ID. The rest of the time they pretended to know what it was and let me through...theater at its worst.

well, depending on geography, her age would not be high alert. nor her sex. put age sex and race together along with where has she traveled recently out of the geographic area and you have a low likelihood. this ain't rocket science slfisher.
I am not saying that it couldn't change at some point. and reality sucks if you've just come into the US from Yemen and are muslim. I don't think skin color is a relevant factor. there was just a major arrest of three individuals, two were women, they were all Baltic immigrants. Now they weren't arrested for plotting an attack themselves, they were passing materials and money. But my point still stands when discussing air travel and terrorist attacks historically. But of course, you realize if the airlines were in charge of their own security they'd figure out the risk reward ratio of pissing off their customers, right?

IIGeo, I have a passport card. It is directly related to my passport. I have only ever showed it at the international border. Real ID is about domestic travel. the 4th Amendment is clear-the Federal govt may not ask me for papers if I am traveling between cities or states without a warrant. Drivers License's are different than "papers." we'll agree to disagree on what the Real ID is going to end up being. I do sympathize with border issues. thanks for your kind words, I'm a "she" :)

Huh?

"doesn't fit any of the criteria if profiling were used."

How do you know? Simply because of her age and race?

grrrrrrr.

Outrageous! There should be no checking of papers within the bounds of the United States of anyone unless there is reasonable suspicion of a crime. I find it appalling that the government is so inept that it cannot control the borders at the border... that border patrol agents are stationed miles away from the borders instead of at the border, or determine who is of concern at air terminals from international flights. My whole bloody state is now considered within the border "zone." This flies in the face of our freedom to travel within our nation without harassment. Our government has gone wild... It is the government oppressors that should be burdened and punished for their ineptitude, not the citizens.
The constitution, "The Privileges and Immunities Clause of Article IV, Section 2 of the Constitution states that "the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." This clause protects fundamental rights of individual citizens and restrains state efforts to discriminate against out-of-state citizens. However, the Privileges and Immunities Clause extends not to all commercial activity, but only to fundamental rights."
14th amendment, section 1. "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionar...
There can be little more fundamental than the right... the liberty, to travel unimpeded by big brother.

voting should be based on registration and signature. Prove who you are to register and submit a signature. Of course people can steal signatures but it's hard to have mass fraud that way if you have to show up to vote.