The Austrian Business Cycle Debunked

Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 2 months ago to Economics
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More on why I am not an Austrian. Austrian Economics is not consistent with Objectivism and it is not correct formulation of Economics Science.


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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    thanks, I am challenging a lot of assumptions including the very definition of economics. However, I also point to a number of people who have worked on similar issues.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'll buy the book, and hopefully understand it. However, as I wend my way through the realities of life, I most likely will use my simple criteria for acting in survival mode. Will my actions answer the questions as I expressed them above, and in each specific case can I make do if certain ones are answered negatively? When reading a non-fiction book I will look to learn something new or clarify something that's been around. I'm satisfied if I learn at least one thing that I didn't know before reading the book. On occasion, certain books assail me with information overload. When that happens it will either take me longer to absorb what the book says, or I'll discard it. Sometimes I'll send it on to one of my clever east coast friends who will lay it out in outline form for me. Hey, I'm not dumber than the average Objectivist -- just honest.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi Vinay,

    The 2001 recession was caused by the Fed, but not because they printed too much money. The 2008 recession was not caused by the Fed, it had many causes of which poor lending practices was one, but hardly the only one.

    My goal is not to build a coalition or politics, like you and Keith Werner. My goal is to get people to think. We have had years of pundits in the US pushing pro “free market” positions, but like Rand said Capitalisms defenders are often its worst enemies, including the Austrians.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In order to ground economics in reality (science) you have to go back and understand why we engage in work. Every person has to produce enough food (energy) to survive and for most of human history we lived on the edge - the Malthusian trap. I explain this in detail in my upcoming book, Source of Economic Growth.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes all the gains in technology over the last 20 years have been eliminated by government theft. Slavery did not end it just morphed.
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  • Posted by Vinay 10 years, 2 months ago
    Firstly, I have not read all that Austrians have to offer. I read the ABCT on Mises dot org a few times, some Mises (I find him boring to read), quite a bit of Rothbard and Reisman. I can’t find anything in Reisman that I disagree with, but he is not a classic Austrian, he is superior (IMO). I think the ABCT says central banking causes the business cycle, which is true, but I don’t think it says nothing else can cause asset destruction. It is silent on it. Wars can cause asset destruction. Cronyism, greenie-ism, and lack of IP can cause an economy to fall—the Austrians are not saying it can’t. A “unidirectional” fall. But cyclicality of the type we see is caused by central banking. I think there is nothing in objectivist metaphysics or epistemology that can even be remotely questioned. I like the O aesthetics too, but some argue that it is limiting rather than wrong. It can be expanded upon. The politics is mostly or all fine for most Os, in particular the support for IP, defamation law, the possibility of an activist foreign policy, and the existence of the State differentiate O politics from libertarianism. The O meta-ethics and ethics do not need to bought into 100%, they are offered as a consequence of the metaphysics and epistemology. Austrians are only a school of economics. The broader libertarian movement suffers from wrongheaded metaphysics (Kant, Hume) and no epistemology, which causes many of them to regard the carbon racket as scientific. But the ABCT is NOT a theory of growth, it is theory of cyclicality. As a theory of cyclicality, I think it is correct. Rand bought into it. She, and Nathaniel Branden quote Mises in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. Yet' Dale's central idea is correct--that inventing leads to growth. There is no conflict, only cross purposes. The theory of growth stands on its own. The primary issues. Unnecessary cyclicality does interfere with growth, but that is a side issue if one is focussed on growth. ABCT also stands on its own as a theory of how interest rate bastardization causes cyclicality. Also, central banking can cause mal investment. The Austrians have contributed a lot by isolating these negative effects, and making them clear. On the positives they say laissez faire. But the LF sentiment ignores IP, and patents. So we need a theory of growth. Peter Schiff acknowledges that inventing leads to growth.
    Amen, we can be all friends again now.
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  • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And if you placed them all end to end, they wouldn't come to one conclusion, either....
    (original quote used 'laid', not 'placed,' but....)

    Herb, I'd say you're more of a 'normal today consumer.' In our childhood, many of us loved to understand How and Why things worked.

    There was a time when I could describe pretty much How and Why EVERY part of an automobile, from bumper to bumper and ALL systems and components, worked, and why (except maybe torque converters...).

    Today, I describe my personal car, my Prius, as a Computer on Wheels. There is NO physical connection between the gas pedal and the engine. The gas pedal has a magnetic sensor (Hall Effect chip) that senses the position of the pedal and sends a signal to a computer where algorithms compare tons of things about the car in order to decide whether to use the engine, battery or some combination, as well as how much throttle opening to set (if any) and how much fuel to inject.

    With no physical cable or lever between your foot and the power plant in the front of the car.

    But without all that gingerbread, the Automobile System I drive could not meet fuel economy and pollution standards demanded today (by the government, actually.)

    Think about the early autos. They were Dead Simple... totally NOT 'complex,' per se. You had to start them by hand with a crank. Much simpler than all the ancillary stuff a 'starter motor' adds to the car, but the starter motor saved a lot of broken wrists and consumers preferred that.

    Please differentiate between 'simple' and 'easy.'
    Today's cars are Far From Simple, but Way Easy for everyone.

    :) And I still miss my old Corvette, even with all of its problems and shortcomings.
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  • Posted by iroseland 10 years, 2 months ago
    A few things, first the Austrian Economic folks go into the situation knowing and admitting that the Macro Economy is essentially unknowable. This is exactly why they try to make the point that no one should ever fool themselves into thinking that someone can manage the economy. Do, they spend a little too much time one the roles of central banks.. Perhaps.. But at the same time, the central banks have spent a lot of the last 100 years being massively incompetent at trying to run their economies. The result is that recessions are more frequent, last longer and are deeper than they were without them. Recessions will happen pretty much no matter what anyone tries. The question is what they look like and how the exit works out in the long run. Which leads of course to the Dark Ages. Yes, one could call that a multi century recession.. But, there was a lot more going on than just trade failures. The tail end of the Roman Empire was a case of classic mismanagement. The City of Rome itself was buried in special "holiday's" where it was essentially against the law to actually work. To top it off, and partially because of that huge amounts of productive work was pushed down to the slave class. Then to top it off Rome was hit no less hard than the rest of the world by volcanic winter. Then the final nail was pounded in by the Justinianic Plague. At the same time, this left a massive power and trade vacuum that was rather quickly filled by the Vikings and their willingness to run a boat up any river they could find. So, from that Europe and central Asia got the beginnings of stable and relatively safe trade routes. European trade quickly re-normalized during the post-viking era, and the Silk road was made safe and passable again by of all people the Mongols. As for the Austrians misidentifying the source of wealth.. I have to agree.. Wealth is a result of brains and the freedom to act on them.. Thing is that tends to be difficult to stick into an equation, so I think they stick with what can be easily measured as a proxy. But, they need to tweak that some more to get closer to knowing the unknowable..

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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 2 months ago
    I forgot who said it but it is definitely true: "If you put twenty economists in a circle, they would all point in different directions." No matter what certain economists say, Economics is not a science. You will never get complete agreement by any of the multitude of learned people on this subject. How can you judge? Easy. Choose the economics that comes closest to allowing you the most freedom. If you want to know why, just K.I.S.S. DB has what I like to call the "Engineer's Mind." Needs to know not only the "what" but also the "Why." I, on the other hand am a rational consumer. When I drive a car, I'm less interested in how it works, than how it manifests its workings as a car. Do a little research. Economy? Reliability? Comfort? Roominess? Performance? I'm pretty sure that DB can tell you the difference between a differential and a veeblefetzer. I can't. Does it work and act like I want it to for a price I can afford? That's my baby!
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 2 months ago
    probably the finest economics book ever written was by Bastiat.
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 10 years, 2 months ago
    The underlying reason that savings does not equate with investment is Federal Reserve control over the value of the currency. The value ascribed to newly printing dollars comes at the expense every dollar already printed. So the Fed is essentially stealing everyone's savings to create these new notes and passing that value to the banks who lend it out for investment.

    Quantitative easing translates to investment (Mal-investment to be sure :)

    If the FED was not able to print money (based on buying treasuries) and interest rates were market based THEN savings would correlate with investment.

    Technology and increases in production due to technology is the only source of growth. The constant theft of the government (which appears as price inflation but is really the Deflation of the value of the currency hence prices must adjust upwards) is hidden by the deflation of prices due to technology. That's the only reason the government can get away with it and not kill the economy.

    In the end everyone could have been 100 times richer, and the economy much larger, if the government didn't take it all.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unfortunately, this is only true if you have a proper understanding of property rights, which the Austrians do not.
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
    If you just keep government OUT of business, there is no need to battle back and forth about this stuff. The market (i.e. individual citizens) takes care of it automatically.
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  • Posted by RonC 10 years, 2 months ago
    We live in a micro world while we use macro tools to guide our decisions. This is like reading the eye chart without the proper corrected lenses. Keynesians somehow believe that the cycles in the economy will continue regardless of the regulations and government meddling. In an actual way, just look how robust the present economy is, (not). Finally there is a bit of disposable income because OPECs monopoly has been broken. Beyond that, where is the big restart of the next cycle.

    On the face of it, Austrian Economic makes sense from the point of view of multiple incentives inspiring action. There's something missing from that because those incentives don't always work.

    I would add this to either theory, attitude and motivation. I think it doesn't matter much which theory you subscribe to, if the attitude of the masses is fear based, there will be little expansion. On the other hand when the measurement of confidence is high, millions of people decide to do things they have been putting off until better times. A good portion of the things put off are big ticket items like cars, houses, RVs, cruises, etc. This change in attitude puts a forward bias on the economy no matter what theory or metric we use to measure it.

    I have noticed in the last few months the news people have been publicizing the consumer confidence stats. They are up from the last 5 years, slightly. My theory, the Ronc grow your own gulch theory, says that when confidence is down is a good time to expand as there is little competition. Then when confidence is renewed it is a good time to sell these opportunities to those who now have the ability and willingness to buy. That is very mercenary, but that's how it works in my micro. Buy low, Sell high. My personal economy grows this way, and I submit that if multiply that by 3 or 4 billion there will be ups and downs based on the experiences and confidence of the masses.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As usually you did not actually read the article You also missed what I clearly said are the most important criticisms 1) AUSTRIANS ARE JUST WRONG ABOUT THE SOURCE OF ECONOMIC GROWTH AND THEY ARE WRONG THAT ALL RECESSIONS ARE THE RESULT OF THE CENTRAL BANK.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 2 months ago
    Just some instances where you get the Austrian School wrong, and by so doing, you're entire analysis falls apart.

    1) You state that "savers" have alternate means of saving, such as investing in stocks and corporate bonds. The Austrian School says that savings provide the stored capital to invest. Those alternatives just provide a different route to that investment. Stocks either do so by providing money directly to a company (if the shares are via an IPO or from the store that the company retains and sells on the open market), or indirectly via sales that garner revenue for another party that are then put into banked savings, more stock purchases (which then starts the cycle again), bonds, or consumption. Bonds on the other hand are direct investment, as they are sold by companies to fund operations and improvements/expansion. Thus, even those alternate mechanisms for "saving" really lead to investment, which is the premise of the Austrian School's evaluation of the business cycle.

    2) If you truly think that stock price is dependent on company performance, then you are more ignorant of the stock market than I thought.

    3) You state that Austrians aren't concerned with interest rates that are "too high." That is not true. It is merely that that occurs less frequently than them being too low. Nor are central banks (the Fed) likely to retain high interest rates, but they often set them and maintain them too low. Too low of interest rates encourage mal-investment by encouraging money into activities that otherwise wouldn't be funded as too risky. But, since the rates are so low, the bankers are looking for anything that will give them a chance at a better return. They take a chance knowing that the money that they are lending is garnering them no return sitting idle, so any opportunity to improve that outcome is pursued. Higher interest rates discourage loan seekers for less risky investments, as they have increased costs and their level of return must be higher to make a viable financial proposal.

    4) You cite that central banks are relatively new phenomenon. That in itself is true. But the control of currency has been the case since currency has existed, in any form it has existed. When that control has been centralized, via a government usually, it is subject to manipulation, and it is the manipulation that is the issue, not specifically who does the manipulation. As far back as the Romans (and further) coinage was manipulated so as to inflate the value. Other lower cost alloys were used so as to debase the value of the metal (our current coinage has undergone the same debasement), as has shrinking the size of the coinage so as to reduce the amount of precious metal included in the coin. All of these things cause inflation of the currency, whether it is caused by a central bank or not is irrelevant.

    5) Inflation and recession are also functions of government spending, particularly during wars when governments often expand the money supply to fund the war. This spending causes a distortion in the economy similar to the mal-investment of low interest rates. Businesses that otherwise would not receive funding do, despite the risks. While this is not specifically called out by the Austrian Business Cycle, it is in the same vein of causal effect.

    These are just 5 glaring issues in your analysis. I don't have time to continue on, but anyone reading your essay should place these comments in context and evaluate the Austrian School and the Business Cycle appropriately.

    You continue to demean the Austrians because, in my evaluation, some Austrians do not support your view of Intellectual Property rights. You skew their principles based on this view, and present a jaded perspective.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would love to get your first book. Since that recession impacted my life a great deal, I would like to understand. How can I buy it?
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I reviewed db's book entitled, "Source of Economic Growth". Gulchers will enjoy this one.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Perhaps what is it you want to learn more about specifically. For instance, my coming non-fiction book, Source of Economic Growth, will discuss in great detail the source of economic growth, but it will hardly mention Austrian Economics or economists. I have two posts on the foundations of the Austrian Economics on the Gulch and why they are not consistent with Objectivism. Alternatively my first non-fiction book, The Decline and Fall of the American Entrepreneur, discusses why economic growth has been so weak since the 2001 recession. This book also discusses the Austrian's point of view of property rights and on patents and how they are incorrect. There is a great video by Adam Mossoff on the Austrians' point of view of property rights and the logical errors.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 2 months ago
    The source of all wealth is the human mind.
    Great article- thanks
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