The OP asks what people would sacrifice to build *themselves* a Gulch, not what they would sacrifice for other people to have a Gulch.

Interesting that in AS#3, prob for budgetary reasons, they had cars with colorado license plates !!! Why would people in the gulch need colorado license places (current ones !). It was hidden from the society, or at least thats what they said.

One of the things I liked about X-men was they did have advanced technology. The Gulch would have it too, but a lot of technology is founded on an advanced infrastructure, which would not be there for awhile.

Such a question of sacrifice does not belong on this site.

As far as #2 is concerned, I think for all practical purposes, we are there. Maybe there is a trial still, but its rigged as it was in Nazi Germany and in the far eastern countries now. Look at Snowden- what a trial he would have had !! Bradley Manning- that was a trial? So much of what we do can be construed as "terrorist", which will get you dumped in a hole forever. #3 is done thru inflation every minute of every day for years now. #4- I agree that political correctness especially relating to race has gotten really bad. #1- I agree with you on this one. The two parties are two sides of the same coin- they take from some and give to others (just different "others")

It worked for Gus Fring in Breaking Bad !!

The United States did embody many of the principles of the gulch. You are correct it has become corrupted over the years, with the destruction speeding up more and more in the last half century or so.

Restoring the US to what it was, is impossible for a lot of reasons. Including the fact that there were many aspects of the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries we would not want back in place now.

It would be possible to restore some of those principles, and it would be amazing to do so. Which politicians would work to do so though is really a big part of the problem.

Dictatorship and tyranny do not necessarily have to follow the earlier examples. If the goal is not to be brutal for the sake of brutality, but to control, milder, gentler methods are sufficient. If the same effect, compliance, can be achieved by having people loose their jobs, insurance, social stigma, jail - why have physical executions when mental ones are sufficient? Want to test the theory - if you work for any large organization, go make a statement against Osama, the administration or transgenders. See what happens. After the management hoses you down, repeat. See if you start believing in the modern, gentler and kinder executions...

technocrat, if as I personally believe all hell breaks loose in 10 years there will not be any place to go to that will afford you any comforts in life as you now know them. you will have given up everything.

Whoa! Thanks for that link!!

I am not planning a third world country in the least. Saw enough of that in the past, no thank you.

The concept of Galts Gulch is compelling, else why would most of us spend our time here. I started this thread for discussion on pros and cons and choices that can be made for having a non-virtual gulch.

This site is already building a virtual gulch for all of us, especially with the new features that have been added of late. At the same time, some people might like to go a bit further beyond virtual.

Participating in an extremist group that supports and performs violent attacks stretches the definition of political offense beyond reason. Assuming you are talking about the recipients of Obama's drone program.

I wonder if they were going to kick out anyone who stopped following the oath or kids who rebelled against it. I also wonder how they dealt with criminal behavior. If they just kicked out everyone undesirable, the host country would not like the Gulch siphoning off their most productive and leaving the host country with the troublemakers.

Ideally you'd combine all 3: a hotel/conference center with attached business incuabator, with a gate around it. What would make it amazing is if it could be close to a population center but with the host country somehow granting (b/c that's how they see it) a high degree of autonomy.

Its all about choices waytodude. That is what we are discussing really, choices.

Are you planning a third world country? Most of the items you listed are available just about anywhere, except maybe places like N. Korea or Somalia or Iraq and Iran, maybe Syria now. I had most of these items when I lived in the Philippines back in the 80's. Well, maybe not Amazon but I could do without that anyway. My parents just moved to Belize a year ago and my mom says it is just like it was in Wisconsin back in the 50's. No big malls, no WalMart, chip sealed or unpaved roads with a slow speed limit. However they do have running water, electricity, communications, well maybe not the phone. I qualify that in that they have communications in Belize, just not back to the states and that is because of the fact that our communications structure is so different from everybody else's, fault US regulations.

Yes, I saw your thread on that.

there is nothing needed to be given up, we are where we are. in the gulch JG added power and there is plenty of renewable power source stuff to use. the rest is living ok. look foreward, not back. there is no yesterday only tomorrow

Yes indeed. Equivalent to a gated community with one real difference. That difference being extremely reduced interaction with the outside society, Ragnar, D'Ancona, and John Galt being the interfaces for outside contact.

Man is a social animal and always has been. We have always gathered together for social interaction and mutual protection.

Every single person is an amalgam of both good and bad impulses. One of the purposes of a social group or society regardless of size is to define rules for the group.

At base you have to deal with problems yourself. If your group is part of a larger society you can also use that society's rules to deal with the problem as well.

If you look at AS, it was essentially a gated community. You could not enter the Gulch unless you were invited by John. So, effectively they were selective in their membership.

I agree with others that the problems don't yet necessitiate shrugging. However:
"2. Executions without trial for political offenses - I give you that one, no signs of that at all. "
The gov't killed a US citizen abroad b/c they thought he would be difficult to arrest and because his alleged motive was political. They don't do it for people who murder for insurance money, a relationship dispute, or a random serial killer pathology. This is not 100% what Rand was saying, but it's inching closer to an execution without trial for political offenses.

I understand and acknowledge your point in this. I disagree as to the degree of damage.

It does not meet the standards of murder for me because life was not lost.

Depending up the circumstances murder would be less painful and far kinder, I see your point, but won't agree to that equivalence.

I've read several of these posts. I'm amazed how many believe the Gulch is not possible. I left the city and started way before I even knew about Ayn Rand. I have a small ranch 26 miles from neatest gallon of milk. I'm working every day on becoming more self sufficient. If you want something bad enough you have to become the producer and complaining about how it's not possible. If your a true producer you would say I CAN.