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Practical option for going on strike

Posted by lookdad 10 years, 1 month ago to Economics
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We've all talked about what it would be like to go on strike, or what a true Galt's Gulch would look like. Here's an idea from an email conversation with some friends of mine:

"If there was a national tax revolt, we might tie [the Fed's] hands. They can plan until the cows come home, but if taxpayers said, "NO!" with our cash instead of our mouths and stopped paying taxes, most everything would grind to a halt - and not just [the specific gov atrocity we were talking about]. Huge shutdown. There would be panic among the government to get things rolling again. At that point the people have leverage. But that would require a unified opposition. We better not hold our breath on that one."

That led me to think: are there other ways that we can greatly reduce tax revenue (even if they raised taxes) within the current code?

• Is there a way for everyone to file tax extensions indefinitely without actually paying money? Technically, we'd "agree that we owe" XX amount of money, but give them a note of debt and keep the cash set aside in our bank accounts.

• Can we create an underground economy, where bartering is the only accepted currency? Obviously gold was used in the gulch, but technically gold is just an acceptable standard... If I trade my eggs for someone else's milk, then no sales tax is applicable. AND, if almost everything I "buy" is from bartering, I can lower my income drastically and give the IRS less.

• Or do you think we could actually get a nationwide tax strike off the ground?


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Previous comments...   You are currently on page 3.
  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
    Additionally, I'm trying to get off the grid (solar panels, well water, chickens, bees, garden, etc) - which means I won't need to pay sales tax on any of those (yet). So, even if bartering is scary, self-sufficiency is a quick way to a "consumer's strike" (a phrase coined by freedomforall, which I like).
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Local currency is an interesting idea, which would basically facilitate bartering/local business. I'm sure it wouldn't take long for that local tender to be regulated by the Feds...
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed... I assume I'll be audited soon with what I say via text/phone/facebook anyhow...
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
    In my opinion, the only effective peaceful method of protest or resistance is a consumer's strike. that would hit both government and manipulative corporations where it hurts, in the revenue stream.
    That would also have to include a plan for moving all liquid assets out of the federal banking system and into another mode of payment.
    Switching to consumption at local small businesses using local script instead of legal tender currency aka federal reserve notes would also be required.

    Unfortunately it would further wreck the economy as a side effect.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 1 month ago
    I would be very careful about this discussion.
    I haven't looked into the regs themselves so I could be wrong, but I prefer to err on the side of caution when dealing with the IRS, who has been shown to be a politically controlled agency with power to destroy even economically strong entities.

    In recent years people have been prosecuted for conspiracy to tax evasion and the evidence in tax cases does not have to conform to evidence in criminal court.
    I think that there are tax regs that include taxation of barter when done on a consistent basis, but again, I have not read the regs or cases, so that could be the IRS "opinion" which nearly always is biased against the taxpayer.

    This is not your grandfather's America.

    I would hate to see anyone here prosecuted in tax court for an innocent discussion. Today that is a real possibility.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah - there's the rub... The US only introduced income tax in 1913, but for some reason most people think that our country couldn't survive without it. In truth, we flourished far more when there was no income tax and we had an actual standard for our money.

    The difficulty in a strike - as will all strikes, including the lovely unions - is that everyone jumps on board. Obviously, the "scab" in this situation would be someone who still pays their taxes - most likely out of fear that no one else is really going to strike. Unification is the weakest part of the idea, because even though none of us can stand what's going on with the fed, I assume that most everyone still fears their power.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm in TN, which is the opposite - no state income tax and a bit higher sales tax. I prefer that, because sales tax is something I can avoid by not buying everything new.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I hadn't heard of the term until your comment, but checked it out. Overall, it does sound like that - and Wikipedia even cites Atlas Shrugged as Rand's presentation of the idea. Strangely, Wiki associates it with left-wing libertarianism, which I don't necessarily see. (Libertarianism, yes; Lefties, no)
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  • Posted by tkstone 10 years, 1 month ago
    Isn't this the approach the agorists push, an underground economy?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 1 month ago
    I like the principle of a "strike", but what percentage of the people who pay income tax want there to be zero income tax? I've often heard people say income tax should be 10%, borrowing from the Judeo-Christian tithe. The strikers would have to be united in what they want.
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I just looked it up, because I didn't know that. I found this: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html

    This is the line that makes me think eggs for milk wouldn't be taxed:
    "The term does not include arrangements that provide solely for the informal exchange of similar services on a noncommercial basis."

    So - if your income actually comes from selling eggs or milk, then you'd technically have to pay tax on the "transaction." But if not, I don't think that tax would apply.

    [edit] Which makes me wonder if Rand was even more prophetic in choosing to have the Gulcher's real-world jobs be different from their primary profession - that way John Galt could barter engineering while only making income as a train laborer.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 10 years, 1 month ago
    Actually, if you trade your eggs for someone else's milk, you are still obligated to pay sales tax if you are caught
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    In addition - this thread is more of a question than anything. A tax revolt is one option - how else do we stop feeding the Fed?
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  • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Not sure - I'm self employed, so I don't have anything withheld (and it's on me to pay everything). I know you can slightly change what is withheld, but I don't know how much.

    I guess completely going on strike would only be possible if you're not paying throughout the year.
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 10 years, 1 month ago
    How would you go about not paying the withholding tax taken from you before you even see it, and the employers portion?
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