Al Qu' ida forces retake Fallujah
How many people did we lose there? So we declared victory, made all kinds of statements about how successful US operations were in pacifying and rebuilding the country. Then we pulled out and the whole place has returned to fighting with the big difference that Al Qu'ida is not substantially in charge where they almost did not exist before. When will the Galt-led strike begin?
We learned absolutely no lessons from Vietnam at a cost of hundreds of thousands of lives lost or destroyed in some way.
What has been accomplished from a "lead from behind" policy? I posit the following: The destruction of American policy and the lessening of American influence in the world. Obama's legacy has set us back fifteen years and will, in the near future, prohibit us getting involved in some worthwhile causes. Good job American voters.
We learned absolutely no lessons from Vietnam at a cost of hundreds of thousands of lives lost or destroyed in some way.
What has been accomplished from a "lead from behind" policy? I posit the following: The destruction of American policy and the lessening of American influence in the world. Obama's legacy has set us back fifteen years and will, in the near future, prohibit us getting involved in some worthwhile causes. Good job American voters.
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The reason we have lost this war is because we don't believe in our own ideals. we go over, win, and the first thing we say is set up any laws and govt you want. The first thing they do is set up an Islamic fundamentalist state. If we believed in our own Constitution and values we would say NO! You have to have religious freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free association, the goal of the government is to protect the natural rights of the individual.
But instead we believe in moral and cultural relativism-oh, we can't force freedom down your throats! how bad of us! Cultural relativism is essentially a "racist" concept, in my opinion.
There are two models in US history that have been successful in wars. The WWII model and the Barbary pirate model.
In one case, it's what hiraghm states-you get unconditional surrender. BUT if you do that, the followup is important-you have to setup a system based on natural rights or you will end up with the same problems.
Barbary pirate model-is what Will suggests-bomb but demand.We don't care that it's indiscriminate. We don't do either anymore. Bush did not follow through and ignored our Constitution as the appropriate model in Iraq and afganistan and Obama is guilty of actively aiding the Islamic fundamentalists to take over the middle east region.
Constitution might as well just do what you suggest. Obamas child the Arab spring in two months destroyed all we had accomplished prior in that war. I think of how futile our soldiers feel being undermined like that and any of the soldiers who did a tour or several over there. What a waste. Treasonous
I don't know what a lot of people think. I know that that is what we should have done.
That is not what Americans do? Apparently what Americans do is kiss the ass of every PoS primitive out there and ask him nicely if he'd like cookies with his tea, oh and would he forgive us for not giving ourselves to his whim?
Bull it's not what Americans do. Maybe you forgot the piece of toilet paper the Japanese signed on the deck of the Missouri while crossing their fingers behind their backs, but I haven't. We demanded and we got unconditional surrender. Unconditional. We got it after blowing straight to hell two cities, each in the blink of an eye. And then we went in and ruled until we (mistakenly) judged them civilized enough to rule themselves.
Either we learn to conquer them, or we learn to love the Adhan.
A policy like that would save us the cost of all the American lives spent to try to free places like Iraq, while maintaining our national security.
A lot of people believe that we should have invaded and conquered Iraq. That is not what Americans do. It’s not who we are, and I do not see where we should debase ourselves for people who call us the “Great Satan” of the world. You want to wallow in your stone age filth, fine, stay that way.
Should we have waited longer before we pulled out? If we had, would it have made any difference? If we had stayed in Iraq longer, could we really afford the negative fiscal impact that further prolonging the war would have had on our nation's economy? Or would it have been better to simply leave Saddam Hussein in power and never go to war in the first place? Honestly, I don't know. The whole thing was a huge mess, and I don't really know whether the alternatives would have been any better.
I meant to say "Libya and Egypt".
I sincerely believe that God meant for America to rule the world at the end of WWII. And we blew it, for no better reason than altruism.
Yes, we have a right to interfere with others.
We went into Kuwait because... oil.
We went into Iraq and Afghanistan because Moslems wouldn't stay in their bit of the world and not fly airliners into skyscrapers. We should have conquered Afghanistan because it is a source of rare earths, which we will need until we get off our asses and begin exploiting the solar system.
Sorry, I can't accede to utopian views of the world that regard everyone as equal, every philosophy as equal, which pretend that if everyone just act a certain way the world will be paradise.
The 7th century death cult dominating that part of the world isn't going to sit in their hovels and leave the rest of the world alone. The Moslem goal of global conquest is *not* "internal strife".
Obama put us on the wrong side in Libya and Afghanistan, and I know why, but that doesn't mean we don't have an interest in who rules those two countries, particularly when one faction represents the most virulent and dedicated aspects of Moslem conquest.
We stunned the world, showing them what a modern military can do, when we blew through Iraq like crap through a goose.
Where we screwed up was not in invading, but in "winning hearts and minds" rather than breaking arses. We should have gone in there and ruled, not served. Our mission wasn't, or at least shouldn't have been, to bring democracy to the middle east, but to pacify the middle east. To take away their ability and will to take offensive action against us.
We wouldn't have been there for a decade had we done it right.
The question of blame doesn't lie with starting the IRAQI THEATER of the war, but in how we dealt with it once we'd won.