Objectivist Bad Guys?

Posted by Zero 11 years, 4 months ago to Entertainment
42 comments | Share | Flag

I was kinda harsh on Hiraghm the other day with his THREE DAYS OF A CONDOR post, so figured I'd stick my neck out with one of my favorites.

Frank, the titular Thief, is just about as close to an Objectivist as I've found in movie bad guys.

(If only he stole from the state instead of the private sector. Of course Ragnar not only stole from the state but he gave the money back to those it was taken from. Big difference!)

Anyway, one cool thing about this show, it reminds you that the distance between Objectivism and the average man is less than you might think. Frank makes a plan for his life and pursues it with competence and integrity. That really resonates with the viewer.

If you haven't seen it, I'm pretty sure it's on Netflix.

So, does anyone remember this one? What did you think? Thumbs up? Down? Meh?



All Comments

  • Posted by Dargo 11 years, 4 months ago
    I cannot wait to NOT see this movie. It looks like a real piece of CRAP.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I hear ya, but I am less about the price paid and more about the opportunity lost.
    merry christmas, lestroy
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Just for the record, I never go out of my way to look for "bad guys" in Objectivism or any other belief. I just thought that they were the point of this discussion.
    Of course we all have a learning curve and mine has been a lot longer than I would have liked. That's why I was making the point that my own worst behavior has been when I have violated my principles as an Objectivist. If I had learned earlier that I will always pay a high price for that behavior it would have been a lot better for me.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Y'know, you're right about that, KH. God only knows we are never portrayed in a positive light.
    I just thought I was being clever - and following up the "Three Days of the Condor" post with some better "bad guys."

    But I take the point. Perhaps some "good guys" are due some recognition.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    this is too abstract for me. I need some sort of example. self-denial plagues every man. even Objectivists have a learning curve, for goodness sake.
    If you are talking about this post-zero and I disagree on objectivists as a bad guy. Objectivism is about romantic heroes as AR formulated her philosophy in writing her fiction. It is not in the romantic tradition for me to go looking for the bad boy. Objectivists are portrayed wrongly as bad guys too much already in books and film. I like to focus on what one should strive for in life.
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again, I'm not a psychologist so I can only introspect. For me, it is always a choice, even if the choice is to ignore those little inklings that tell us there is something wrong with what I am doing. So in that sense, I have chosen to go unconscious (or maybe semi-conscious). I believe that it can seem unconscious if it has become a habit.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again, I'm not really saying he's an Objectivist. - see my other comments.
    I really should have come up with a better title for the post.

    More accurately- maybe something like - Rational Bad Guys an Objectivist might like.

    Well, something like that.

    But, no, an unrepentant thief would seem to be precluded from the club.

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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would like to discuss your statement "people make mistakes"..
    Of course we all make little mistakes that have little or no consequences like forgetting to turn the stove down (I guess that could have a pretty big consequence!). The kind of "mistake" in the context of the discussion is where one has made a breach principle in terms of our beliefs as Objectivists. Are those really mistakes? In other words, is it legitimate to say it's just a mistake if one has evaded and thereby allowed himself to do something unethical or dishonest? If I introspect about my own instances of dishonesty it was always because I allowed myself to evade so I can't minimize it by calling it a mistake.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    you made a couple of provocative statements. I just am interested in having a discussion. not judging your comments. that's the point of this site.
    let us have it! ;)
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Wow! Once again you appear to be interpreting what I say as negative when I was just agreeing with your objection to my wording. Since you seem to be determined to find someone who has a problem with Objectivism to argue with, please understand that it won't be me. I don't have any problem with the philosophy and in fact have been a supporter of the ideas most of my rather long life.
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We're not immune, but we have far less excuse for being butt heads. In my judgement, one has to do a lot of evading to be a Christian or a leftist, so it's second nature to them. That's something we profess not to do. Of course that's assuming evasion and butt head are corollaries. :-)
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I haven't seen the movie, but I will watch it. I have to see how one can come to the conclusion that a thief who steals from private individuals, not the government, can be an Objectivist. :-)
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am replying to this statement:
    "Even if Objectivism could be considered "a movement" there would have to be a lot move people involved."
    did you not intend it to be a negative statement? I read it as such
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry you "sense" that. I can't give you an example of how the philosophy is flawed because I don't think it is flawed and I don't have any examples. You seem to have made the assumption that I think Objectivism, or Objectivist organizations are flawed because I believe there are flawed people in them. Is that correct?
    BTW, you did bring up something for me when you said "people make mistakes". I want to discuss that with you but I have to think on it first. I'll respond later today.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very true, Dave. You know, we get so hung up on the way a story DOESN'T live up to all our expectations, that we often fail to notice the ways it does.
    Few of us get it all right all the time. Writers and story tellers too.

    When you look for excellence you find it all around you.
    When you seek perfection you are usually disappointed.

    I liked Rollerball too, And I'm with you about James Caan in general. I don't know what his personal philosophy is but he always seems like half-way one of us.

    As for Jon E at the end - yeah, probably not good. For every successful revolution there are thousands simply shot where they stand.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I sense some animosity in your comment. The goals and actions of an organization are not the same as an individual's pursuit in philosophy. People make mistakes. Give an example of where the philosophy is flawed so we can all discuss it.
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm new to this so I didn't put my answers in the chain.
    1.You are right in correcting me for calling Objectivism a movement.
    2. I won't give you examples because that would be divulging personal information so rife is too extreme a word to use. I do have enough examples to believe that it is very common.
    3. I've never done this before. It's fun. Thanks for your input.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Most Christians are good people. Some are butt heads.
    Most leftists are good people, but some are butt heads.
    Most _____ are decent people, some are buttheads.

    We're not immune from the basic rules of life.
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  • Posted by 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's not for everyone. If gritty action movies aren't your thing by all means pass over. If you DO like gritty action movies - well I give it a big thumbs up.

    Not that you've said it - or even implied - but just to have it said - It is OK to like gritty action movies. It doesn't make you a lesser being.
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  • Posted by LESTROY 11 years, 4 months ago
    I stand corrected. Even if Objectivism could be considered "a movement" there would have to be a lot move people involved. Sorry about my sloppy use of terms.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    how is a philosophy of life a "movement?"
    Objectivists of all people understand you contract and associate with individuals, so I completely agree with your last statement.

    "Perhaps you need to be more careful because the movement is rife with rationalists who haven't done any "inner work" to understand what is driving them"
    wow this is a loaded statement. Care to cite some examples or evidence of this?
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