you no longer can hold your own values in America

Posted by MaxCasey 11 years, 4 months ago to News
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you are no longer able to chose to exercise your values in America. You now run the risk of being forced to become a hypocrite by the government. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not, this baker should not be forced to work for people he chooses not too.


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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ROFL... Sure has. Well, as you mentioned earlier not YOU as an individual, but christanity sure has made messes all over history. And NO your personal brand don't count. You are part of it.

    So, about those gays harming anything. Be specific.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There has been no agreed upon price for his product, because he will not sell to them.

    Selling them a cake, or a baloney sandwich may not endorse anything... selling a WEDDING cake, is another matter.

    WTF do you care? You're an atheist, anyway.

    khalling, why is it I attract all the perverted stalkers in the gulch?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly how are the two homosexuals being abused, aside from each other during their sex games?

    Snide condescension is a standard tactic of intolerant leftists when confronted with principled stands.

    If you knew a fraction of what you claim to know about "my religion", you'd know that he'd be risking denial to paradise in his afterlife.

    Please cite your source of evidence that the bakery owners are pagans? Because, as you know, it's Zeus / Jupiter who throws lightening bolts.

    But, then, with your sloppy, childish thinking, who can expect you to get anything right? It's not as if anything matters to you beyond tweaking the noses of the grownups in the room.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If you are going to spew your leftist nonsense, at least try to be imaginative.

    We did not wage war ON Vietnam, we defended the republic of SOUTH Vietnam.

    When South Vietnam fell, it was to FOUR ARMORED CORPS of North Vietnamese regulars. The millions who died were a result of communist aggression, not American defense of freedom. Many were sent to re-education camps for crimes such as possession of a French/Vietnamese dictionary, and who were joined by their wives and newborn children.

    In your hypocritical hatred of all that is good, don't let the facts blind you.

    Iraq fired on our warplanes, which were flying a no-fly zone to prevent Hussein from using more WMDs on his own populations. That alone was reason enough to resume the war. RESUME the war.
    Afghanistan harbored Al Qaeda, nuff said.

    The "never did nothing to us" bit is getting old. Again, if you become lonely in your ignorance, the solution is not to attempt to spread ignorance, but to educate yourself.

    As for Obama, he's not slavering to pull the trigger on Iran, or he would have done so. All he wanted in Syria is to make sure the right set of despots got in charge, as he did in Libya and Egypt.

    We should have conquered Iraq and Afghanistan, set up American governor-generals to rule them, used them as staging areas to crush Iran between, then swung west to crush Syria. If at that point any of the rest of the middle east gave us lip, they should have gotten stomped, too.
    Then the conquered territories should have remained under American rule for a generation or so until their populations could be indoctrinated in western philosophies and cultures... much as we did with Japan.

    So, you really want to go there with me? You really want to pretend moral outrage at the U.S. to someone who thinks we were far, far too lenient? To someone who would have set the ROE to include massacring entire villages for a single IED?

    You're barking at the wrong slavering, murderous monster, kiddo.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "It was terribly intolerant of the little boy to proclaim that the emperor was wearing no clothes. "

    Actually the kid was stating a FACT.

    Now how's 'bout a fact from you.

    What impact has same sex marriage had on your life? Be specific.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree completely with your point about Roark.
    I disagree that homosexuality is a mental illness.
    I certainly respect the business owner's right to make or not make cakes for whomever they choose to. Financial interest is only one determination in any transaction.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, that brutal christian god is hard on the people IF you believe in that there christian bible. BTW, what makes it different than any other holy book?

    Again, what difference has gay marriage made in your life?
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hiraghm claims: "Homosexual is a mental/emotional illness."

    Really... According to what book? DSM maybe? Ain't there.

    Besides, your god created them.

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  • Posted by Wonky 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Okay, in the sarcasm over a judicial ruling over cake, I can chuckle.

    On the other hand, boycotts/sanctions are among the best tools for individuals/states to enact change under a purely capitalist morality. Capitalism is a peculiar form of morality, but it IS a form of morality, even without consideration for the form of government that supports it.

    Yes, I would convict/expel (internal) or bomb the shit out of (external) totalitarians waging subversive wars against us from the inside. McCarthy was probably the last unsung hero in our (unspoken, unacknowledged, right-of-center, nationally identified) war for the rule of law, and a liberal-leaning military is backasswards, but freedom-loving individuals that don't whine and feign injury over frivolity, be they male/female, black/white, gay/straight, religious/non-religious are "our people".

    Whether anyone else gets this, I am speaking directly to YOU, sir.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But how does selling a cake "promote" anything? That cake isn't gonna run down the street yelling anything. It's a CAKE. Being open for business in America means serving ALL of America.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Where the hell were you when South Vietnam fell? Were you oblivious to what happened in Southeast Asia? Central America?

    Big tough army guy... another seeing his pee pee? Where the HELL did that come from?

    I don't know if God will make it right or not, but have you checked out His track record of HOW he makes things right?

    Do a little research on a couple of towns called Sodom and Gomorrah. Or about Noah and his boat ride. God's way of "making things right" is a bit hard on the populace, don'tcha know.

    And I know where accepting oxymorons as normal will lead; every perversion and mental illness being forced upon the society as "normal" and "healthy", with thousands of television hours spent trying to figure out why the hell the country is going to pot, tiptoeing around their blind spot that it is the belief system being forced on us in the name of tolerance that is destroying society.

    It was terribly intolerant of the little boy to proclaim that the emperor was wearing no clothes.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    lol. your vote is fine. but I thought jim's point is also highly relevant. There is no such thing as an "Objectivist political agenda." Objectivism is a philosophy. Libertarianism is a political/movement/platform. You should go look at Objectivist boards near a major election cycle. All over the map. I am continually amazed at Objectivists who voted for Obama, for example. The most progressively voting senator(who had been a senator for a short time) who supports the use of Force for every conceivable social welfare program. Which would include cases such as this one. The military Industrial complex does not change whether the President is democrat or republican- but the chance of a major (the most major) social program grab-Obamacare since Social Security happening was likely a certainty. Frankly, I think the conversation in this post went to the most fundamental argument.
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  • Posted by $ pixelate 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Rand didn't have an economic theory; rather, she was an exponent of Capitalism. She admired and wrote favorably of the works (literary and speeches) of Mises and endorsed the Austrian School of Economics. Both Fountainhead and AS showcased the road of the entrepreneur and the beneficial consequences of free markets.

    Of her philosophy and Objectivism, she was ready to remind the reader / listener -- you have no right to initiate the use of force. This can "seem" to get complicated in how we define "force" and the word "initiation." For example, should you find yourself in a situation where winter is coming on and you have insufficient food-stores for your family to the extent that starvation is imminent, you have no right to exercise the use of force to compel me to sell you a portion of my food stocks. Your inability to plan ("initiation") is not a lien ("force") against my exercised capacity to live a well-planned and intended life.
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, what's natural is for the biggest, strongest, smartest guy in the group to kill whomever he wishes for any reason - or no reason at all.
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    We had laws like that. See Buck v. Bell. That's where the phrase "Three generations of imbeciles are enough!" came from.

    In point of fact, we have imbecile breeding programs in America. We call them things like, "welfare", "food stamps", "AFDC".
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  • Posted by $ pixelate 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nonsense, indeed. As a business owner, I have a right to decline clients for any reason that I can possibly imagine. My mind, my body, my property, my business. A large measure of the basis of Atlas Shrugged was in the context of the business owners coming to their wit's end in light of immoral laws. What could they do with the weight of immorality on their shoulders? Shrug.
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sounds a bit arbitrary to me. You choose to uphold public/private spheres, but rape the concept of freedom of association and freedom from forced labor (slavery).
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    wrong. Homosexual is a mental/emotional illness.

    Your question cannot be answered because there is no such thing as "same sex marriage". The term is an oxymoron.


    Yes, atheists can get "married" in America. And when atheists get married, it is nothing more than a contract not to screw somebody else while screwing up the life of the person you marry.

    But, *marriage* is a religious institution, the life-long *mating* of man and woman, affirmed before God.

    Atheists cannot make such a commitment. They're short one God.

    Chimpanzees were made by my God, too. That doesn't mean they should be married.
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Right.

    Hear that everyone? Nobody associate with Hiraghm! ;-)

    Actually, it's a relief to know we have the right to NOT associate with you! :-P
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How does selling them a cake "endorse" anything?

    He is in business to make money and they are willing to give him a fair price agreed upon for his product.
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  • Posted by Boborobdos 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually it's not. Ayn Rand was demonstrating how the looters abuse government for their own gain.

    This is government preventing abuse of a couple in love.

    Really, how does it harm the baker to sell a cake to another? Is his god gonna hit him with a lightening bolt? His aim must be really really bad because I ain't been hit yet.
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Just a thought here… but I wonder what would happen if the baker put signs in his windows saying, "God hates fags"? Of course, he'd want covert security cameras in place, just in case his "customers" were not as tolerant of his views as he is being forced to be about theirs.
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