you no longer can hold your own values in America
you are no longer able to chose to exercise your values in America. You now run the risk of being forced to become a hypocrite by the government. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not, this baker should not be forced to work for people he chooses not too.
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Things do change. It is getting better. But when someone can simply attempt to trump our laws with their religion they should fail. We are not a theocracy and a "religious" excuse for anything IMO is quite lame.
Arguments extremes don't make any points. Pushing things to absurdity just shows how desperate one is to make any "argument."
Americans are "forced" by social contract to do many things. Taxes, speed limits, clearing sidewalks of snow... I don't feel "owned" when I follow these conventions.
America has been built following a path of equality and non-discrimination. To violate that is simply un-American.
I find it interesting... It's not a debate about religion but a debate about business and what should be the rule book. Atlas Shrugged or some bible.
Marriage is a civil contract. America does not have a state religion.
Why is it that the couple doesn't get that?
I think the couple does. They felt no harm. They wanted to be activists on this and make a point-with a big stick.
Now the bakers, having paid lots of money to be in court, are considering, if they haven't already, closing their business. They have received numerous death threats and attempted vandalism-that's HARM.
Marriage is a CIVIL contract. Remember even atheists can be married. Heck, in some states even homosexual atheists can be married.
In fact there is a bit of an economical boom in those states where same sex couples can marry. I'm sure John Galt would approve of those businesses giving value for their services.
Oh, and BTW, Bishop Spong is Christian and he says same sex marriage is OK. How do I sort out all those Christians? There is you and Fred Phelps on the brutal side denying love and then there is Spong going along with loving relationships. Christanity sure is confusing when folks try to impose it upon others.
Refusing to "service" a potential client is not the same as "taking" his dignity.
A contract must have at least 2 willing parties in order to be valid.
The guy is in business. Why do you advocate that he be allowed to discriminate? Oh, that's right... your religion. Just like Fred Phelps.
Why do you argue to take the dignity from another man? What do you gain from it? You can't trade it, you can't sell it... So, you steal it with no intention of gain. That doesn't sound like anything Ayn Rand would approve of.
when starbucks Ceo asked that patrons not use there shops when wearing their firearms where was the moral outrage from the civil rights groups
Why don't you take awhile.
Why can't you understand that it's just good business to sell to everyone? That was clearly demonstrated when the American Family Association tried to boycott Ford for advertising with gay themes. Yet Ford made it through without any government aid. It's just good business to be inclusive. I'm sure John Galt would approve.
it is off the constitutional ranch
Remember, render onto Cesar.
Maybe you should go back to your bishop for some more sloganeering.
Besides, the dog is unlikely to be old enough or have enough cognitive ability to support any concept of informed consent.
Thus Hiraghm you would likely IMO be guilty of rape (forgetting about the bestiality part).
BTW, now that we are clear from your statements we can deduce that such is common among anti-gay zealots. Check this out: http://www.theonion.com/video/breaking-a...
Any "right" only written down in legal documents is a right granted by men, revokable by men. The wording of the Constitution makes it clear that the document does not grant rights, it grants powers, and protects rights, which can't be granted by men.
If men are equal, they cannot grant "rights" to other men.
Therefore, either rights come from God, or rights don't exist. Or men are not equal.
I already dealt with this in another thread.
"Rights" are a convenient fiction for allowing men to deal with one another. Without the authority of God behind them, the concept is meaningless.
In such a world, you have the "right" to do anything you have the *power* to do. You are denied the "right" to do anything you lack the *power* to do.
In such a world, I have the "right" to discriminate against whomever I choose for whatever reason I choose, so long as I have the power to enforce it. Thus, if a pair of homosexuals enter a bakery, the proprietor has the "right" to pull out a shotgun and help them back out the door.
What did humanity do before there were laws?
(yellow tags denote food whose expiration date has arrived).
That'll be adequate.
You're a hypocrite.
Oh, wait, we're not asking irrelevant questions that have nothing to do with the discussion? Sorry, you had me fooled there for a second.
I guess you can't be bothered to investigate the context of Jesus' comment you so love to quote.
Calling a tail a leg doesn't make the name fit.
You can call baptism a sales receipt... doesn't make it so.
In America we are ruled by the Constitution, which grants limited power to government. We are not ruled by any law which exceeds those powers granted by the Constitution.
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