you no longer can hold your own values in America
you are no longer able to chose to exercise your values in America. You now run the risk of being forced to become a hypocrite by the government. Whether you agree with gay marriage or not, this baker should not be forced to work for people he chooses not too.
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This is tragic because this was a great opportunity to call for a reasonable boycott with real support from heterosexuals - and they squandered it.
straight up socialism
Payment is only one part of a contract.
And you're right, I'm not an Objectivist, though I do consider myself a capitalist. I came to this site because I found Atlas Shrugged to be an entertaining story and an admirable criticism of socialism. Yet in spite of that, I find many parts of Objectivism to be self-contradictory and impractical. But I also enjoy debate, and discussing the pros and cons of Objectivism wouldn't be possible anywhere except on an Objectivist forum.
Human rights should never be determined by the market, because the market very often is entirely capable of permitting discrimination.
Much like the saying "a good merchant does not argue religion with his clients", a good merchant does not argue sexuality with his client. If a baker chooses not to sell penis shaped cakes in spite of a market for them, it's his loss.
Getting the government involved is ridiculous. That the government would get involved is simply wrong.
Are hurt feelings harm? How about lower self esteem? who is the arbiter of what "harm" is?
You are not free to not be offended. there is no demonstrable right to be free from being offended, nor is there any right to be universally liked. People must be allowed to determine their own values and act accordingly. If you deny that, then there is no freedom and there is no individuality. Where does it stop? Who decides? Society? A simple majority? A super majority? How many men does it take to vote the panties off of an unwilling woman?
Maphesdus, you need to step out of your emotional based thinking and understand the nature of rights. While the gay couple may have had their feelings hurt, no force was used against them. Now the shop owner is being forced, at the threat of a fine, which is equivalent to a portion of his life if he doesn't serve the gay couple. You don't have the "right" to do business with anyone that doesn't of his own free will choose to serve you. If you claim that a person choosing to refrain from service, even for prejudiced or biased reasons must serve another, even if it can be morally shown that the bias is immoral, you are still using the ends to justify the means.
If the means are not moral, the ends cannot be justified. Denial of rights, for the sake of someone's definition of Utopia is not justifiable and the Gay's rights are not being violated any more than a black man's would have been, or any other "protected" group. Yes, people should be allowed to make their own decisions. In private enterprise they should be able to express their prejudice or bias and they should not be protected from the ills that their irrational behavior will inevitably bring upon them.
How you can suggest that the shop owner is the instigator, the bully is beyond me. I honestly don't understand how you came to be on this site. You are obviously no Objectivist.
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