You wipe down spin bikes?

Jan, eyes wide

I loved his Bullshit series. I did note that he 'weighted the odds' in several cases...but he did so in such an amusing manner that I was diverted and not outraged. For example, in the anti-martial arts segment, the most artificial and spacy of the genre were selected to demonstrate how useless martial arts are. Now - I agree that martial arts does not beat a pro with a gun, but there are many occasions when martial arts are superior to firepower. But the Penn and Teller segment showed a woman who communed with her kidneys...not what I would use to demonstrate usefulness.

Tim's Vermeer? No. I missed that. I have just looked it up on IMDB. Not the sort of movie I would generally watch, but I will give it a shot.

Jan

this is an orchestrated assault on Christianity, that's why

well you never watched Bullshit then. I also had alot of respect for Carlin. cynical bastard

the variable is California. I have many gay friends and that would never happen. but I also know some other friends who are ostensibly hetereo who are much looser in the sexuality space bubble arena. I never appreciated that feature of any club I belonged to. I'm weird like that. don't get me started on touching door knobs or wiping down spin bikes...lol

alright. that was directed at me. it is a contradiction in a long line of great and consistent thinking and putting his money where his mouth is. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate and cite his Bullshit series. Also, if you did not read my review of Tim's Vermeer, consider watching it. brilliant and Penn funded. Out of almost any performer with a pulpit I can think of-he deserves an oops...and so does Teller (who was in our movie)

wow. compelling story. get started on that book

Penn is highly philosophical. Libertarians are happy to start the bottom of their pyramids in the sky. engineers know that's not a great plan

yep

I had a business, selling of exotic and specialty hardwood lumber, etc. I posted signs reading that we could refuse service to anyone for anything. It stipulated we were not responsible for slivers. It also stipulated that children must be kept on a leash (so to speak) inside, as there were all kinds of dangers lurking that we could not protect them from. Power equipment, saws, jointers, up to 20 foot boards standing up on end, thousands of them. We didn't really require a leash, but probably should have. Some idiot complained to some authority and someone actually came out (I forgot which one) and told us to take the sign down. It somehow restricted the rights of children. At first I thought they were joking, but they really don’t have any sense of humor at all. I guess it’s part of that total authority impression they have to maintain. We took the sign down.

One day a kid came in with daddy. The kid went over to a large cabinet (5’ wide x by 5’ High and 2-1/2’ Deep) with drawers loaded with inventory of steel drawer slides. The kid started to pull out the drawers one at a time until we heard the crash. It sounded as if a small airplane had hit the building. The leveraged weight ripped out the retainers that connected it to a concrete wall. The whole thing tipped over on the kid. God fortunately was just sending the kid a lesson, a few of the draws broke and jammed under the pile which prevented a few thousand pounds of the cabinet from making him into peanut butter. After he was dug out he wasn't hurt at all, not even a scratch, a little embarrassed, but there were several of us that were about to have a heart attack. Later I put up another sign that read, "Unattended Children will be given an Espresso and a Free Puppy". No one complained about that one. I sold the business shortly after that, it just wasn't worth fighting those that always seem to know better about everything. I won’t bore you with a bunch more stories, but I should write a book.

Funny thing too, how some parents got annoyed about us telling them to please watch their kids. I’d usually tell them that story about the kid getting buried under that cabinet and that would sometimes get the message across. I Thank God every day for my retirement, every day.

I don't think libertarians lack a philosophical basis. I think Penn allowed his militant-atheist side to shout down his libertarian side.

Penn has a whole series on YouTube where he talks philosophy. (In addition to the BS! series which should be libertarian cred enough for anybody!)

Yes, and the militant Christians, and the militant feminists, and the militant liberals, and the mil...you get the idea.

I too was an American soldier, and raised my hand for freedom. I do not really give a hoot about the Judeo-Christian belief set, except that a lot of the churches in that group seem to have gotten beyond their extremist mindset...which makes them OK neighbors. Buddists are good neighbors too.

Yes, the gay community should not curtail the rights of others. But cummon: They have only been outted for about 40 years; even feminists have been public longer than gays. There is going to be some thrashing around whilst they figure out how to interact with the rest of society. Look - they even confused Penn!

So while we all think that the right solution is for stores to be able to 'have the right to refuse service to anyone' (and for stores with "gays welcome" signs on their doors to make better profits), there is going to be some wrong steps taken, wrong statements said.

The gay people I know would not have accosted you or your wife in a rude manner in a locker room. And they are supporting the idea that people should choose to preferentially patronize stores that say "gays welcome" - I mean actually supporting it.

Jan

Oh, and why is there not the same outrage over Muslim businesses? I want the Muslim meat market to carry pork or baker to make a gay cake. This is getting OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!!

Why couldn't the gay couple just buy a standard wedding cake and then after taking it home, put the other guy or gal on the cake?

What ever happened to "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

The Government needs to stay out of this kind of thing, and healthcare too!!!!!!!

Perfect response. But will they listen? Perhaps Jillette will, but the rest of them at CNN would, I'm sure, be bewildered by what you wrote, they are so far away from understanding the nature of freedom.

I agree. That is the kind of government action that most angers me. The small business owner may have worked his entire life to build his business to support his family and government looters have assumed the power to destroy his business and ignore his right to operate it according to his morality. He chooses to risk losing business because of his beliefs. Any government that tries to intervene should be C-R-U-S-H-E-D.
You want a cake? I'll bake you a damned cake. Spend your honeymoon in the toilet you ignorant savage.

I'm not looking for answers, just saying that business owners have a right to protect themselves.

When we had the Yes on Prop 8 campaign here, the militant gays went after the donors that happened to be business owners. Posted their children's pictures on the web, where they go to school, where the donors live, etc.

They did nothing but exercise their freedom of speech. That is why I have little respect for the gay community, or the libs.. With those, it's free speech, but only if aligned with their own - all others are to be muzzled.

I was an American soldier, I fought for the freedoms for everyone, not just select groups.

If their actions and speech can't stand up to some critical thought, maybe they need to adjust their actions or speech.

It's a country founded by judeo-Christian beliefs, and they dominate our culture, but we are also an opening and gracious people that governs all with equality. They need to be heard, I dont dispute that, but their rights end where they curtail those same rights of others, they never understand that.

Like Jan, my experiences with gay people has generally been polite, even when I've been solicited.

Your example is an interesting flip on why we have separate locker rooms for men and women to begin with. Should we have two more locker rooms, or should we just have one for all?

I'm sure there are smarter, more respectable people than Penn, but not so many are influential. He does a great service for freedom by influencing the middle-of-the-road. Everyone listening to Rush has already formed their opinion. Penn is one of the very few reaching the many that argues for all aspects of freedom.

Penn is no more perfect than the rest of us, and most people are still learning. As an entertainer he has to be very careful when he speaks. Entertainers have a lot of undeserved, unearned propaganda power and most of them never learn how to use it wisely. In his place I might come here anonymously and speak my mind, while keeping my own counsel in public.

Huh? I do not follow. Breadcrumb trail, please.

Jan

It is amusing the degree to which we seem to be saying:

Penn = Yay!
This incident == Oops!

Jan

If hetero solicitations on an equivalent level had been occurring to her, your wife might have called the cops. The gay folks I know tend to be meticulously polite, but I have heard many stories like the one you tell about other elements of the gay community. I hope that it is just a transition phase and that similar standards of good behavior will become customary for both gay and hetero interactions.

Jan

One could also turn this around, which the article does to some extent: what if the consumer was forced to buy from a specific vendor? What if that requirement held true regardless of price or quality? Whose ideology would be in question then?

I have never understood why anyone would want to patronize and purchase items--especially edible items--from someone who does not want their business. Leaving all other considerations aside, why would you want to support that person's ideas?

The question is one of private property. Nothing more or less.