Well, most of all y'all know how MY mind works, so it shouldn't surprise you, winterwind, when I read "Right to Life > right to self-defense > firearms," my immediate reaction was something like...

"Arm all of the fetuses!"

.... sorry... :)

Weird. I never watch votes, so not sure if mine get up/down voted. Strange though. Must be some trolls. Think most Gulchers favor gun rights. Glad you do too.

The utopian plan discussions of the book are not my cup of tea, but I can accept a little dreaming from the author if they entertain me with the storyline. I like the detailed geology (or correct word for the extraterrestrial version). The author seems to have used a technology-version of historical fiction. I like that part. Someone on Amazon voted it down as only understandable to a geologist. Funny, and inspired me to like it to prove my science-mettle. My brother is the chief mechanical eng at NASA-KSC, and we talked recently about some of the technical aspects. The author did a good job. The storyline is a little unbelievable. These few people so influential on another planet? Do see that. But entertaining so far.

Almost everything I post in favor of gun rights gets downvoted, but they never post any actual arguments for gun control.

Do you like Red Mars? I happened upon it in the library ten years ago. If the politics in Red Mars bother you, you might like As It Is on Mars. In that one they spend most of the book working their tails off in that book, making it tough sledding, but there is payoff at the end and in the next book when people become envious of their success and try to steal from them.
As I recall, Red Mars moves faster at the end, so it's worth sticking through.

Well said. +1

I'm not following you. Someone is downvoting arguments in favor of gun rights?

BTW, I am about 2/3 done with Red Mars.

"People just want the freedoms they use, and are happy to take away the ones they don't from others"
Apparently they don't have any arguments beyond the sophistry that this presentation debunks because all they do is downvote posts supporting gun rights instead of explaining their position.

Not sure I follow you. I am not making an argument in favor of either republicans or democrats. I am making an argument for freedom, even those you don't use. I would agree, some Rs want to control social behavior. Some Ds want to control social behavior too. like the nonsensical "hate crime", a crime of intent not consequence.

Don't think I referred to "center".

While it is nice that you don't read the second amendment to not infringe individual freedom to bear arms, SCOTUS does.

"The Court ruled that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution confers an individual right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes such as self-defense."
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/second-amend...

If you need to understand this within context (think that was your idea), read the third and fourth amendments. Coming right after the second, it is quite clear what the intention the founders had the rights protected by the second amendment, and it is not a state militia or hunting.

Yep that too. People just want the freedoms they use, and are happy to take away the ones they don't from others, particularly if they think they are scary (almost always = ignorance).

Very well said. +1

Agreed. I often use the argument that they are as afraid of guns out of ignorance as the right wing is of gays.
Then if they are engaged, you have the gay people don't kill other people discussion. Why no, they don't, but sports cars and alcohol kill a lot, when they are misused. Should we outlaw these too?

It polarizes people because they DO. NOT. THINK. On the one side, you have the people? humans? like my brother; all he can do is wring his hands and say "we have to get rid of them! No one NEEDS a..." and the like - 100% feelings-based, like a phobia.
On the other hand, we have people who think about the issue, but many of them "don't want to get in trouble" and allow themselves to be confused on the basis of the issue. They make it too complicated.
If humans have a right to life, they have a right to defend their lives, using the best tools possible and available. that's it. Not even "the Second Amendment says...." Don't even confuse the issue by going there.
Right to Life > right to self-defense > firearms
I have no more patience for trying to persuade people, or "bring them to the right side". I am willing to present the simple argument. once.
and then, because I know those who are not with us, are against us, I will at least have a clear enemies list.

Love!

Thanks for the stats. Can't believe how hard this simple freedom polarizes people.

We all understand why Osama, Hillary and Bloombergs want people control through gun control, just as they are putting the Constitution aside as an annoyance. But what motivates the rank and file Dumbocrats, along with many Republicans, to be fair? They truly believe the "cause," or the pretense of it, in any case, while they themselves do not harbor any intentions to benefit from it as the elitists hope to. Do they just fervently follow the Party's orders? What makes them blindly believe the crap? To address the problem, we really do need to understand it.

Sorry to hear about the one. Mutations do happen from time to time.

Done.

Love Bill Whittle and the sound of Liberal heads popping trying to sort out all of the facts!

CG, the bad guys will Always have guns. . what the
control freaks want is that the good guys will NOT
have guns. . it's like denying the fire department
water -- stupid. -- j

now, That's a Good Presentation!!! -- j

Yep, excellent vid. I put it on FB as soon as I saw it. I only have one Brother out of the Six kids in our Family who is Democrat. I love FACT'S.

I don't know how many times it has to be proved that murder rates are lower where gun ownership is higher before the anti-gun crew admits that it's not the guns that commit murder. The truth is that a country without gun ownership is much easier for the government to control. And a government with tight control makes the politician feel more comfortably secure. It's one more sign that totalitarianism is just around a corner. Illustration? How about this: A seven year old kid was sent home from school for holding a banana like it was a pistol. A friggin' banana!

It's hard not to like Bill Whittle.

The one thing missing in this one is,
How many, or how few, of the murders in the USA are done with guns?

I loved it! Thank You!