Oh yeah, I know. I have a cousin who's transgender, and she openly calls herself an unapologetic Socialist. When we discuss LGBT rights, she and I are in complete and total agreement with each other. But when we discuss economics, we butt heads. I love her to death, but I do worry about her. Yet at the same time, I can also understand why she thinks the way she does. When you're a member of a persecuted minority, it's easy to buy into a philosophy that promises equality and social justice, and most young people aren't informed enough to realize that Socialism can't actually deliver on that promise.
Sometimes I wonder if people who engage in persecution and discrimination realize that in doing so, they're actually helping to create the exact type of situation which causes Socialism to have such widespread appeal in the first place. If everyone just treated everybody else fairly to begin with, nobody would feel the need to seek justice through social reform.
I'm just lucky that I happened to have the opportunity to actually study socialism and capitalism on my own before anyone had the chance to indoctrinate me, otherwise I may have fallen into the same trap as my cousin.
Why can't a government health inspector can inspect the kitchen of a home? Because he has no reason to. Food prepared in the home is unlikely to be served to anyone except the people who live there, and maybe occasionally some friends and neighbors. As such, there is very little potential risk, and therefore no need to regulate. The same is not true of a restaurant that serves hundreds of customers a day. When serving food to a large number of people, sanitary considerations suddenly become much more important, and the state has every right to protect citizens by ensuring that all businesses adhere to certain health and safety regulations.
Business owners are human beings. Human beings are inherently corrupt. You people worry so much about government corruption, you never give any thought to corruption from non-government entities. That view is incredibly foolish. A government regulator is certainly not incorruptible, but neither is a restaurant owner, and the regulator does serve a legitimate purpose.
And I don't consider myself a collectivist. Rather I believe collectivism and individualism both have a legitimate place in society, and trying to eliminate either one will have dire consequences. It's like the right and left wings of an airplane: if you want to keep the plane flying straight, you need to keep both wings intact, and recognize that they're both necessary. The reason Communism failed is because they tried to cut off the right wing (individualism), and so their economy went into a tailspin and crashed. But taking the exact opposite view and saying that we should cut off the left wing (collectivism) instead will have the exact same consequences. The only difference is that we'll spin in the opposite direction.
For more about the problems of completely rejecting collectivism, please see this post:
That sounds great! But yeah, I can't see it happening in the foreseeable future, unfortunately. =|
Most gay people here in Brazil, for example, didn't even care about socialism or capitalism... They just wanted to be able to marry. But then, the Left was faster and helped them out. Now, all these young people are being fed socialist ideals as we speak. =/
It won't be easy. If I started talking about capitalism near gay guys today, I would probably get some weird looks haha.
I don't think getting two papers published WHILE STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL is a low bar at all. Seriously, how many men have achieved something like that at that age?
Err... Not really, man. I'm pretty sure hetero-phobia isn't really a thing, or is it? I've never seen gay people bashing straights haha.
The gay couple wasn't being heterophobic. They were just being immoral and stupid by forcing the baker to make business with them. Even a straight black couple could do that if the baker were racist, right?
The government would not allow gay people near their loved ones during their final moments on hospitals. Quite a few people were denied visitation rights, and they had civil unions.
That's all I'm saying.
-X-
We already have the same 'rights'? Are you sure?
By 'rights' I mean all sorts of taxes-related benefits. I believe those are immoral, of course. And I would never want them for anyone, straight or gay, if we lived on a real capitalist society. That would be ideal.
But we don't.
We haven't achieved the ideal, yet, so I can understand how It makes gay people upset when they see straight couples getting extra 'rights', like: 1. Being able to file taxes jointly; 2. Being able to pass an estate tax-free to your spouse (huge tax burden for us. Some people lost their homes or businesses like this); 3. Being eligible to social security and many other government related benefits.
We pay the same taxes as citizens (actually a little bit more), but we don't get the same treatment. Until marriage is privatized, it's only moral for us the be treated in the same way, I guess. Do you think it would be fair for interracial couples if they didn't have these 'rights' above, while white couples have them? =/
Oh, and if you're not bored by me, here's a short 2 minute video with David Boaz expressing his opinion on gay marriage:
Well, I'm sure marriage can be quite troublesome ha ha. Still, I'm really interested in things like hospital visitation rights. Those are not paid by taxes. Also, If my partner had a grave accident, I wouldn't be able to make any decisions regarding his treatment.
Finally, birth defect group? That sounded quite offensive to me, Zen... Was it really necessary, man? Come on! =D
Well, depending on the nature of the condition, they might not need to be informed. They might be able to tell just by looking at the child. Of course that depends on the nature of the condition, but still...
Whenever Civil Unions have been allowed, they never had the same legal status as marriages. There were always more limited in scope. They are no substitute for true equal rights.
I don't think the government had anything at all to do with the tradition of a spouse being with their other half at the death bed, or the children or vice versa, I think this has probably been happening since the dawn of mankind or shortly after.
As for wanting the same' rights' as straight people, they already have them. What they seem to be striving for is some form of recognition and special dispensations for a birth defect group.
Why in the hell would they want to be married anyway? I've been married 4 times and trust me, it aint all it's been touted to be.
Yup. Wills solve most of these problems, you're right.
I lol'ed at the Obamanationcare haha. Nice one!
-X-
Now, I just don't know what to think about this gay marriage matter anymore... I actually used to be quite a militant a few years ago, but then I realized we were just being used by left-leaning political parties. I kind of gave up trying to find solutions through the state... They will only increase taxes and spread even more of their control over our lives anyway. It's hopeless.
I'd just recommend people to leave a country where you think you're not being treated fairly... Changes may take decades of struggle before they happen, right? Rand didn't stay and wait for Soviet Russia to come to its senses, she got the hell out of it.
I wonder if I'll ever get to see a truly capitalist society in my lifetime. Such a country would easily be able to solve most of these small problems along the way, I suppose.
In the US there is no such thing as automatic inheritance, its best to have a will. Also the adoption can happen, there are hurdles gay marriage would not address. The health insurance would be up to each employer but is kind of moot since Obamanationcare. The hospital thing could still be an issue. Other than the hospital consents and private policy issues which would be on hospital by hospital basis there is no big benefit outside of tax reasons which I have already pointed out may not be in their best interest anyway. Why cant partnership be called something other than marriage?
Apply that logic to a building. It has to be 15 stories tall. It has to have a base of 100'x100'. It has to contain 120 apartments with 1000 sq ft of living space. It has to withstand a 60mph wind and a 6.0 earthquake.
That's just six design objectives. Suppose the building only meets half of the design objectives. Would you pay for it? Would you live in it? Or would you consider it a FAILURE?
COBOL came out at the end of 1959. FORTRAN was available in 1957, and did a better job of meeting its design objectives than did the female-led COBOL project.
It seems that women need only be mediocre to gain more fame than men who do a better job. Reminds me of the old saw about the talking dog - It matters not that she's no master of elocution. The wonder is she can talk at all.
Hopper led a team and produced crap. What man led the FORTRAN team that developed a better language? No one remembers. Why is that? Could it be because men are expected to be able to do the job, and so when they do, it's not important? But women are expected to be failures and so any success at all (even if it's only a 78% failure) brings Hopper-level laurels?
Here's one for you: Who was the Navy's first carrier-based female fighter pilot and why doesn't she receive the same accolades as Hopper? Do YOU know her name (without looking it up)?
One question about the most famous female scientist, Curie… If she knew so much about radioactivity, why did she kill herself with it? Did she do it on purpose? Or out of ignorance?
Not taking anything away from her (co-) discovery of radiation (along with her husband and Becquerel), but it seems odd that one of the discoverers of radiation would accidentally poison herself… with radiation.
I'm not sure about America, but that hospital thing used to happen here in Brazil a while ago.
Many states now have acknowledged gay marriage this last year. That was necessary. Before, we couldn't adopt our partners' surnames, no way of joining our incomes in order to rent an estate, no way of including them as dependents on health plans, no adoption of children as a couple, no automatic inheritance in case the partner dies, we could not authorize risk surgeries for them.
You see how a contract isn't enough? The absence of some of these things can seriously impair a gay couple's life. And they are all things that a free market could provide easily. Why should the government be the one responsible for this? I don't care for the notion of marriage at all, actually. I just care about these services above that I'm not allowed to get access to through a free market because the government prohibited them from doing so.
About white people, that was just an example of what can go wrong when the government decides to control the market in that way. All sorts of problems.
White people burn in the sun, yes, but they didn't give up because life isn't fair. They fooled nature and invented the sunblock! And maybe, someday, they'll be able to purchase some kind of genetic enhancement ha ha.
So a high school student who gets two papers published is the bar for being a female scientist? Like I said: Low bar.
Hey, don't get me wrong. I like Natalie Portman. I thought she was cool in "The Professional" (BEFORE she became a "scientist"). I also enjoyed her in The Other Boleyn Girl and V for Vendetta. She was sort of furniture in the Star Wars movies. I REALLY liked her SNL interview. http://vimeo.com/51268555 But if two papers written in high school is all it takes to be a "scientist"...
sorry... I missed the <humor> font... Joking's fine, but it isn't obvious from text itself... context or smilies really help...
Oh, and for sibling or parent/child "marriages," part of the usual diatribe does go to birth defects and genetic stuff, but rarely includes the possibility that one of them might be sterile or be willing to be sterilized, after which that issue is moot.
And, as I've tried to point out to LOTS of folks over the years, if the ONLY purpose of marriage is "perpetuating the species," well, I guess my last (current) marriage should be annulled, because my (current and for the past 23 years) wife had a hysterectomy before we were wed...
Another issue that rarely gets covered in the vehemence of "discussions."
Oh, and first wife and I never had offspring, either, though as far as we knew, both of us were not infertile. On the other hand, it is an honest statement when I say "I don't have any children that I know of." Details in my autobiography some day... :)
I am always for the govt taking their hand out of my pocket and leaving me alone. the hospital thing kinda bugs me because none of my gay friends ever had that problem. but I am not saying it never happens-just wonder how often nowadays. I'm more about the parental rights issue. all teh screaming about marriage and basically nary a peep about social services deciding if a gay parent is "fit" to adopt their own child? that is messed up.I am for whatever contract acknowledgement gays want, but they have to pick their own new word for it. why would they want the old traditional thing anyway? words have meaning. that is my point. nothing bigoted about it. I'm not sure what white people have to do with this discussion...how about only white people burn after 5 minutes in the sun, only white people seem to be allergic to grain....
Is engineering a science? Don't get me wrong, if I had it to do over again I'd get myself a degree in mechanical engineering. But I never thought of it as 'science'. More like applied science as opposed to theoretical, I guess.
If your definition of "marshmallow" is anything that's squishy on the inside... Here, have a raspberry jelly doughnut.
You should read what I said. I said you should have no trouble finding a totalitarian state that suits you. There are plenty of totalitarian states, and your rhetoric indicates that that is your preferred form of government.
I hear bigoted comments from people all the time who don't realize they're making bigoted comments... and that's from all races/both sexes.
I also hear what would be considered bigoted comments used by friends toward one another as a sort-of test of acceptance. "I can get away with this because you know I love you" kind of thing.
Previous comments... You are currently on page 4.
Sometimes I wonder if people who engage in persecution and discrimination realize that in doing so, they're actually helping to create the exact type of situation which causes Socialism to have such widespread appeal in the first place. If everyone just treated everybody else fairly to begin with, nobody would feel the need to seek justice through social reform.
I'm just lucky that I happened to have the opportunity to actually study socialism and capitalism on my own before anyone had the chance to indoctrinate me, otherwise I may have fallen into the same trap as my cousin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8-gjpv7s...
And I don't consider myself a collectivist. Rather I believe collectivism and individualism both have a legitimate place in society, and trying to eliminate either one will have dire consequences. It's like the right and left wings of an airplane: if you want to keep the plane flying straight, you need to keep both wings intact, and recognize that they're both necessary. The reason Communism failed is because they tried to cut off the right wing (individualism), and so their economy went into a tailspin and crashed. But taking the exact opposite view and saying that we should cut off the left wing (collectivism) instead will have the exact same consequences. The only difference is that we'll spin in the opposite direction.
For more about the problems of completely rejecting collectivism, please see this post:
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/2c...
Most gay people here in Brazil, for example, didn't even care about socialism or capitalism... They just wanted to be able to marry. But then, the Left was faster and helped them out. Now, all these young people are being fed socialist ideals as we speak. =/
It won't be easy. If I started talking about capitalism near gay guys today, I would probably get some weird looks haha.
Sure, I've opposed the idea of no regulations whatsoever, but I don't think that's necessarily anti-business.
The gay couple wasn't being heterophobic. They were just being immoral and stupid by forcing the baker to make business with them. Even a straight black couple could do that if the baker were racist, right?
That's all I'm saying.
-X-
We already have the same 'rights'? Are you sure?
By 'rights' I mean all sorts of taxes-related benefits. I believe those are immoral, of course. And I would never want them for anyone, straight or gay, if we lived on a real capitalist society. That would be ideal.
But we don't.
We haven't achieved the ideal, yet, so I can understand how It makes gay people upset when they see straight couples getting extra 'rights', like:
1. Being able to file taxes jointly;
2. Being able to pass an estate tax-free to your spouse (huge tax burden for us. Some people lost their homes or businesses like this);
3. Being eligible to social security and many other government related benefits.
We pay the same taxes as citizens (actually a little bit more), but we don't get the same treatment. Until marriage is privatized, it's only moral for us the be treated in the same way, I guess. Do you think it would be fair for interracial couples if they didn't have these 'rights' above, while white couples have them? =/
Oh, and if you're not bored by me, here's a short 2 minute video with David Boaz expressing his opinion on gay marriage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXrUdgTM...
-X-
Well, I'm sure marriage can be quite troublesome ha ha. Still, I'm really interested in things like hospital visitation rights. Those are not paid by taxes. Also, If my partner had a grave accident, I wouldn't be able to make any decisions regarding his treatment.
Finally, birth defect group? That sounded quite offensive to me, Zen... Was it really necessary, man? Come on! =D
Take care!
Only question is how to get such an organization off the ground... >_>
As for wanting the same' rights' as straight people, they already have them. What they seem to be striving for is some form of recognition and special dispensations for a birth defect group.
Why in the hell would they want to be married anyway? I've been married 4 times and trust me, it aint all it's been touted to be.
I lol'ed at the Obamanationcare haha. Nice one!
-X-
Now, I just don't know what to think about this gay marriage matter anymore... I actually used to be quite a militant a few years ago, but then I realized we were just being used by left-leaning political parties. I kind of gave up trying to find solutions through the state... They will only increase taxes and spread even more of their control over our lives anyway. It's hopeless.
I'd just recommend people to leave a country where you think you're not being treated fairly... Changes may take decades of struggle before they happen, right? Rand didn't stay and wait for Soviet Russia to come to its senses, she got the hell out of it.
I wonder if I'll ever get to see a truly capitalist society in my lifetime. Such a country would easily be able to solve most of these small problems along the way, I suppose.
Who is John Galt?
Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
Apply that logic to a building. It has to be 15 stories tall. It has to have a base of 100'x100'. It has to contain 120 apartments with 1000 sq ft of living space. It has to withstand a 60mph wind and a 6.0 earthquake.
That's just six design objectives. Suppose the building only meets half of the design objectives. Would you pay for it? Would you live in it? Or would you consider it a FAILURE?
COBOL came out at the end of 1959. FORTRAN was available in 1957, and did a better job of meeting its design objectives than did the female-led COBOL project.
It seems that women need only be mediocre to gain more fame than men who do a better job. Reminds me of the old saw about the talking dog - It matters not that she's no master of elocution. The wonder is she can talk at all.
Hopper led a team and produced crap. What man led the FORTRAN team that developed a better language? No one remembers. Why is that? Could it be because men are expected to be able to do the job, and so when they do, it's not important? But women are expected to be failures and so any success at all (even if it's only a 78% failure) brings Hopper-level laurels?
Here's one for you: Who was the Navy's first carrier-based female fighter pilot and why doesn't she receive the same accolades as Hopper? Do YOU know her name (without looking it up)?
One question about the most famous female scientist, Curie… If she knew so much about radioactivity, why did she kill herself with it? Did she do it on purpose? Or out of ignorance?
Not taking anything away from her (co-) discovery of radiation (along with her husband and Becquerel), but it seems odd that one of the discoverers of radiation would accidentally poison herself… with radiation.
Many states now have acknowledged gay marriage this last year. That was necessary. Before, we couldn't adopt our partners' surnames, no way of joining our incomes in order to rent an estate, no way of including them as dependents on health plans, no adoption of children as a couple, no automatic inheritance in case the partner dies, we could not authorize risk surgeries for them.
You see how a contract isn't enough? The absence of some of these things can seriously impair a gay couple's life. And they are all things that a free market could provide easily. Why should the government be the one responsible for this? I don't care for the notion of marriage at all, actually. I just care about these services above that I'm not allowed to get access to through a free market because the government prohibited them from doing so.
About white people, that was just an example of what can go wrong when the government decides to control the market in that way. All sorts of problems.
White people burn in the sun, yes, but they didn't give up because life isn't fair. They fooled nature and invented the sunblock! And maybe, someday, they'll be able to purchase some kind of genetic enhancement ha ha.
So a high school student who gets two papers published is the bar for being a female scientist? Like I said: Low bar.
Hey, don't get me wrong. I like Natalie Portman. I thought she was cool in "The Professional" (BEFORE she became a "scientist"). I also enjoyed her in The Other Boleyn Girl and V for Vendetta. She was sort of furniture in the Star Wars movies. I REALLY liked her SNL interview. http://vimeo.com/51268555 But if two papers written in high school is all it takes to be a "scientist"...
I'll send you the bill for my dry cleaning.
Joking's fine, but it isn't obvious from text itself... context or smilies really help...
Oh, and for sibling or parent/child "marriages," part of the usual diatribe does go to birth defects and genetic stuff, but rarely includes the possibility that one of them might be sterile or be willing to be sterilized, after which that issue is moot.
And, as I've tried to point out to LOTS of folks over the years, if the ONLY purpose of marriage is "perpetuating the species," well, I guess my last (current) marriage should be annulled, because my (current and for the past 23 years) wife had a hysterectomy before we were wed...
Another issue that rarely gets covered in the vehemence of "discussions."
Oh, and first wife and I never had offspring, either, though as far as we knew, both of us were not infertile. On the other hand, it is an honest statement when I say "I don't have any children that I know of." Details in my autobiography some day... :)
Blazing Saddles reference, khalling....
Harvey Korman... "That's Hedley... Hedley Lamarr"
Is engineering a science?
Don't get me wrong, if I had it to do over again I'd get myself a degree in mechanical engineering. But I never thought of it as 'science'. More like applied science as opposed to theoretical, I guess.
You should read what I said. I said you should have no trouble finding a totalitarian state that suits you. There are plenty of totalitarian states, and your rhetoric indicates that that is your preferred form of government.
Government by dictate, not consent.
I hear bigoted comments from people all the time who don't realize they're making bigoted comments... and that's from all races/both sexes.
I also hear what would be considered bigoted comments used by friends toward one another as a sort-of test of acceptance. "I can get away with this because you know I love you" kind of thing.
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