Very good point, David. My daughter was excited to take a course as a freshman in college that was titled " the value of the individual". She was shocked to learn it was taught by a collectivist who taught the individual had no value. My daughter almost failed ( she is an admirer of Rand).

No, making interesting and provocative discussion. I remember yelling at her and throwing the book acoss the room. I did it with Gail and Howard too (I don 't get tulipbulbs and will never be one) . I don 't have any idea who Galt is. He might as well be Rand in a trenchcoat and fedora. I didn 't long to know him either. I loved Francisco and wanted to know Ragnar. We 're all different that way without compromising our morality.

We stumbled in after AS3. There are a lot of comments in this post from people mentioning that FH has played on Turner. We dropped cable years ago after we bought a Apple TV. Thats why we were happy to see it show up on iTunes. CD mentioned that there is a Italian version of "We The Living" (subtitled in English) you might find interesting.

Grab a copy of "Ayn Rand", the biography by Jeff Britting.
ISBN 1-58567-406-0. OCLC 56413971
Turn to Page 71
To quote: Ayn rand "disliked the movie from beginning to end", and complained about its editing, acting and other elements.

Gotcha, Jan. from what I have seen, you were able to get all the concepts without that one book.

I'm OK with subtitles. Nice to know that I am not the only one that has noticed the "mumbling". Some future Archeologist I am sure will be writing a paper on how the Devolution of our language and society began in Hollywood and that this was the first visible sign of what was to come.

Oh Thank you!

When you did not immediately respond to cut me down to size for dissing your fave, I felt lonely and ignored! And no, of course I have never known anyone like that. Ever. (Ahem.)

I listen to other people talk about the book, which means that I do not have to become personally involved in the characters.

Interesting thread - and useful to me (because I get to be a total parasite and listen to what everyone else says without contributing.)

Jan, making trouble today (for no good reason)

Not to worry, I understood the context of your comment. No apology necessary.

Purely my opinion, but: A truly intelligent person has both reason and common sense (even though the shrinks don't seem to think so). That is the essence of a truly intelligent person. There are people out there with a high degree of knowledge and a high level of analytical ability, but I wouldn't call them intelligent (I have known some that even belong to Mensa). With enough analytical ability integrity becomes a choice not to be a moocher or a looter simply because it would be easy for you to do.
Just to look at two ends of the spectrum; Hannibal Lecter and Einstein. Both were considered to have Genius IQ's but I personally would only consider Einstein to be intelligent.

I think Dominique is very interesting. She worked on the belief that good achievement was impossible. I have met many such people in my life, who otherwise were brilliant and doers but their cynicism kept them from trying to achieve higher aims. We all can feel this way occasionally. She just represents a pure version of it. There are gulchers in here just like that. ahem, lucky. jan, can you think of anyone? :)
But I agree it is annoying as hell watching her struggle against herself and how she tries to hurt others. Toohey to me is worth reading the book for-alone. Evilest character I've read that was not a monster.

That is why I tried to read it several times...

Jan, did not succeed

Jan, I agree with you that, even after many years and maturation, I just don't get Dominique. But there is so much more of value in Fountainhead. It's kind of like watching AS3. I just can't like the actress who played Dagny, but the rest of the movie is so good it's worth watching.

I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged in that order. Loved them both. From what I have heard people tend to look more toward Roark than Galt. When I first saw The Fountainhead I thought it was just fair, but my opinion has changed for the better as I have seen it several times.

I recall being told that she was satisfied with it. By a gentleman who was in a position to know.

Apparently AR was highly unimpressed with the movie.

Interesting for an AR book to end up in a public school or university reading list.

You might like to have a look at the course guide to see how they're expecting the book to be treated.

For all you know, they might be looking to smear the book and Ayn Rand, and make your daughter even more socialist.

I heard about some music editing software once which, if it detects it's been pirated, destroys all the music files on the user's disk which this program was used to create.

No, I now think I'm wrong and you're right.
Gave you the 3 for showing me up.
Take that, smarty pants.

I have tried to read The Fountainhead a number of times - and bounced. I do not like the characters and I do not care what happens to them. This is especially true of Dominique. Not only did her internal wars not give me a sense of identification or pathos, but they made her a symbol of what is repulsive to me - someone who destroys wantonly.

So The Fountainhead is not for me.

Jan

I could be wayyyyyyyyyyyyy of base here, but I think it was symbolic of her free spirit.

you have an extraordinarily insightful line of thought
going, here, imho. . intelligence carries in it the stuff
of its own destruction, as well. . besides the potential
to exploit others, there is the potential to "innocently"
abuse yourself in a number of ways -- through
driving your body too hard, or experimenting with
drugs or adrenaline. . I bet that the shrinks have
a whole "science" in this area.

thanks for the elucidation!!! -- j, former mensa
.

The most dangerous thing in the universe is high intelligence not guided by reason.

Agreed. The We the Living film is the best Ayn Rand-based movie. They really got it, and the artistry is first rate for 40s film.

I saw it at age 10 or 11. My mother said I wouldn't understand it. In some ways, I didn't. In more ways, I did. I knew I liked Roark. I knew I wanted to be like him. Later, at age 14 I saw it again and the confrontation between Roark and Toohey was as if blinders had been removed from my eyes. I have seen it many times since. I always want to talk Wynand out of suicide. As a member of the real world I know Roark would never get away with blowing up the project, he'd probably do 20 years. But I'm glad he gets away with it in the story. Of course back in 1943, there well may have been enough people with good basic premises on the jury who could see the act for what it was and agree to Roark's testimony. Not today. They'd let a murderer go free, but a man of character, claiming a right to the property of his mind and talent -- doubtful.

The mentor who turned me on to AR had me read her four major works of fiction in a particular order to present her unconventional views in a logical progression.

First came "Anthem", a simple book that raised the issues.
Then "We the Living" showed how these issues affect real lives.
"The Fountainhead" gave us the morality of a Perfect Man,
Finally "Atlas Shrugged" answered the inevitable question: 'What then must we do?'

I think "Anthem" was my favorite (though Galt's speech was literally, physically. thrilling for me!) But "The Fountainhead" has been the most useful.

My sister wears a bracelet with the letters "WWJD".
I've always wanted one that said "WWRD" to remind me of the many times I've asked myself "What would Roark do?!"

AR was truly one of the greatest minds in history.