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Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal

Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 3 months ago to Culture
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In a lot of ways, I can really relate to what this guy says. I myself also have a very low tolerance for most conspiracy theories (Operation Northwoods is really the only one that has any shred of credibility, primarily because it actually has official documentation to back it up), and I also share his abhorrence of the Tea Party (which, as far as I can tell, has an ideology virtually identical to that of the Ku Klux Klan). Yet in spite of that, I personally still consider myself a Libertarian, but it's probably my own unique, left-leaning brand of Libertarianism; very different from the radical, far-right fundamentalist extremism that the Teabaggers believe in.

It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.

Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L

Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.

"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B

The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).

Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.

Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.


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  • Posted by $ Mimi 11 years, 3 months ago
    I appreciate you taking the time to sum up that you are on a journey of self-discovery, but if you look around you this is a place for people who have a desired, chosen, or achieved destination.

    Calling Tea Party members teabaggers is really offensive, and considering how many times members here,many of them belonging to the Tea Party, who don’t share your ideas, took time and great care to dance around your liberal leanings just so not to offend you as the individual --I have to say --shame on you.
    Maph, we aren’t a social science project for midterm.
    You’ve got people around here thinking your a troll and I’m usually the first person to jump to your defense. It’s time you acknowledge that this is a site for fans of Atlas Shrugged.

    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    Happy New Year, Maph.

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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am an Objectivist. I do not ask people what their beliefs are maph. the tea part is about limited government. they are not talking about making more laws-but about getting rid of laws.
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, man!
    Another racist and/or xenophobe I associate with?!?!

    Wait, you're not a Klansman, are you?
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not sure.
    How would you define H and DK each?
    Klansman and/or generic racist and/or generic xenophobe?
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  • -6
    Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    SOME people in the Tea Party are fighting for genuine freedom. Many, however, express the same sort of neo-fascism advocated by Hiragram and davidkachel.

    And I'm perfectly aware of the reasons why Ayn Rand wrote Atlas Shrugged, I just don't think she was logical enough in her philosophy.
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  • -4
    Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Do you associate with people who have the same beliefs as Hiragram or davidkachel?
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago
    maph, no. you did not say teabaggers. that's hate speech. since I'm a teabagger-I feel all yesterday's cup of tea-totally worthless. thanks. how can I go on without some sort of assistance to get me through this rough patch
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're a teabagger too?
    You must be one of the racists and xenophobes that I unfortunately associate with.
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  • 11
    Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago
    This writer is a born-again fool. >>" Libertarians think they own the word “freedom,” but it’s a word that often obfuscates more than enlightens. If you believe the Johann Wolfgang von Goethe quote “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free,” then libertarians live in a prison of their own ideology"<<

    As for Maph equating The Tea Party movement with the KKK and Libertarianism to The Tea Party movement, that's the most ad hominum nonsense I've read from him. it's as if we're speaking two entirely separate languages that have never had a proper translation made of them. It simply speaks to a pretentiousness of study and understanding of a topic he's attempting to expound on. It does, however add some explanation to some of his comments I've encountered concerning the wrongness or incompleteness of Rand's descriptions of Objectivism and a mind that relies on logic and rational thought. Even using the alleged 'traditional definition of the word', selfish as meaning 'concern for yourself to the detriment of others', only serves to brilliantly illustrate the concepts of obfuscation, semantic bastardization, and conflation from collectivist that disturbs me so much. I'm not sure of what 'tradition' that demonstrates, but I'm pretty positive that it's one that's alien to any region of this country that I'm familiar with, and I'm certainly not in agreement with.

    To mitigate what he might consider, as minor prickly intrusions into an Objective mind set and practice, added is a lot of discussion about items of helping the poor through private charity and a free market, but he wants to provide for government employees and then describes a correct solution for the needs of the poor as to be 'catered to;. And then caps it all off with 'some good points to think about, even if he's only half right'.

    I don't think I'm going to bother with these writings anymore. They're obviously not for the purpose of gaining further or expanded knowledge or understanding of Objective philosophy or AR or those that wish to live a life of rationality.

    Nuff said.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    yes, mimi.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year. I am grateful that I know you and get the gift of your pith and wit
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Wait...I’ll go get another glass of eggnog and join you.
    “I swear my my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

    Happy New Year’s Kh.
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Happy New Year to you too KH, and the love of your life also.

    "I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year, maph
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    snort.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year, pirate
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year rozar
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 3 months ago
    I'm glad you're here Maph. I can easily see this man's scenario having a place in reality. When I was younger, and communist, I went to a tea party rally just to watch it and make snide jokes about what they were saying. I had a plethora of material.

    I also attended a republican convention to elect a new governor for Wyoming. Some of the questions the crowd asked were so insane I couldn't believe the candidates were able to answer with a straight face.

    I don't see eye to eye with you on a lot of issues. And that's okay. It's probably even healthy. I find myself somewhere I never thought I'd be, finding allies in people who are racist, or religious, or what most people would call (maybe rightly so) insane.

    But whatever flaws you or I find in them, like it or not we are all allies here. In some form or another we have a common bond on a few principles. I think it's funny how he saw the connection between libertarians and the crazy uncle, ironic because if it was my uncle I would acknowledge it and do my best to help him, not abandon him.

    That's how I view the libertarians, as family for better or worse. Honestly in a lot of instances closer than family because these crazy bastards have at a minimum one piece of the puzzle in their hands. I can't say the same for much of my biological family.

    All I'm trying to say is whatever you do, don't follow this man's decisions. Even in this short blog you can see his mind shutting down and accepting social norms just so he can fit in. He knows he is not his neighbors keeper. He knows children aren't going to die in the street. He's just tired of defending his crazy uncle.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year, LS
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