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Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal

Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 4 months ago to Culture
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In a lot of ways, I can really relate to what this guy says. I myself also have a very low tolerance for most conspiracy theories (Operation Northwoods is really the only one that has any shred of credibility, primarily because it actually has official documentation to back it up), and I also share his abhorrence of the Tea Party (which, as far as I can tell, has an ideology virtually identical to that of the Ku Klux Klan). Yet in spite of that, I personally still consider myself a Libertarian, but it's probably my own unique, left-leaning brand of Libertarianism; very different from the radical, far-right fundamentalist extremism that the Teabaggers believe in.

It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.

Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L

Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.

"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B

The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).

Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.

Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.


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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year, kathyw
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
    happy new year, euda and mrs. euda
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you for making the distinction that I'm a good person who unfortunately associates with racists and xenophobes.

    That was very magnanimous.
    It means a lot to me.
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  • Posted by $ kathywiso 11 years, 4 months ago
    Why the hell are you here. The Gulch is for those of us that believe in Ayn Rand's philosophy, that you and only you, are responsible for yourself. You are a waste of time. Find a democratic site to post on. Pfffttt...
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    Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, the Tea Party is large enough that I suppose it is reasonable for there to be many people in it who do in fact differ from the more racist and Xenophobic wing of the party. I've read your posts, and you seem like a good person. It's really more people like Hiragram and davidkachel that I don't like. Everyone else on this forum is perfectly reasonable as far as I can tell.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 4 months ago
    I stopped reading after you equated the TEA party with the KKK. Really, Maph? The TEA party is fighting to keep freedom in this country...to get back to the Constitution. Fiscal responsibility. Silly me, you've been forward with your ideas that force is best and should be legal...in reality you have NO idea what you're asking for and how that will affect YOU personally.
    For the record, the vast majority of us in the gulch are not here because we thought AS was a 'good book'...if that's all you got out of it then you intentionally chose to avoid the reasons it was written.
    I do not know why you're here other than you desire and seek out, what you think, are easy targets to bully with your agenda of tolerance and all things equal and fair in the eyes of Maph.
    And with that... I am no longer going to waste my time engaging in conversation with you. You've just shown me, and everybody else, what you are...and I believe you.
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, since you're setting the terms of this debate, I'm going to assume it's OK if I bust out a can of egregious ad hominem and allegation on you.

    Let's see, what would be a fitting equivalent to the demeaning slur and blanket association you used against people like me?
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 4 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm here because I enjoy debating with you guys, and also because I thought Atlas Shrugged was a good story, even if I only agree with half of the things Ayn Rand said. ;)
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    Posted by Eudaimonia 11 years, 4 months ago
    I am one of those "teabaggers".

    I have *personally* stood up *against* the Klan in my lifetime.

    Your post resorts to ad hominem, as does the ridiculous and repugnant screed which you have linked to.

    This is not the first time you have posted articles, which you have agreed with, by groups and organizations openly hostile to Objectivism.

    So, if I have not already asked, I will ask now: why the hell are you here on this board?
    Reply | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years, 4 months ago
    The guy said he grew up in Battle Mountain. Approaching Battle Mountain on I-80 the town has erected a sign that says "Battle Mountain - The Arm Pit of the World".
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