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Why I fled libertarianism — and became a liberal

Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 3 months ago to Culture
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In a lot of ways, I can really relate to what this guy says. I myself also have a very low tolerance for most conspiracy theories (Operation Northwoods is really the only one that has any shred of credibility, primarily because it actually has official documentation to back it up), and I also share his abhorrence of the Tea Party (which, as far as I can tell, has an ideology virtually identical to that of the Ku Klux Klan). Yet in spite of that, I personally still consider myself a Libertarian, but it's probably my own unique, left-leaning brand of Libertarianism; very different from the radical, far-right fundamentalist extremism that the Teabaggers believe in.

It kind of makes me wonder... how many different “sub-parties” are there within the greater Libertarian party? The Libertarian party seems to be the go-to party for anyone who dislikes both Democrats and Republicans, which is actually a rather large percentage of the American people – they can't possibly all agree with each other. I suppose there is also the Constitution Party, which basically competes with Libertarianism, though it's not nearly as large.

Anyway, a big problem I noticed with this guy's argument is his claim that the lesson of the Great Depression was supposedly that government is supposed to help out during a catastrophic recession. But what he fails to realize is that the Great Depression would never have happened in the first place if the Federal Reserve didn't exist. I think G. Edward Griffin's book “The Creature from Jekyll Island” proves this point fairly well.

"The Creature from Jekyll Island," by G. Edward Griffin:
http://amzn.to/19mr04L

Like the author of the article, I also care about helping the poor and providing assistance for impoverished children, but I do have to question his assumption that government welfare is the only way to accomplish that. According to Ludwig von Mises, the best way to provide for the poor is through the free, unfettered capitalism that was advocated by Classical Liberalism, an ideology which is now unfortunately dead, having been replaced by Socialist Progressivism.

"Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis," by Ludwig von Mises:
http://amzn.to/1hxz16B

The problem is not that the government is incompetent. Quite the contrary, the government is extremely competent. Rather, the problem is that the government simply doesn't care about its citizens. If it did, things might be very different. The simple fact of the matter is that a vast majority of politicians and bureaucrats – Democrats and Republicans alike – are only concerned with grabbing as much money for themselves and their friends as they possibly can. Serving the needs of the people is an auxiliary priority, if it is a priority at all. They are absolutely selfish, and I mean that according the traditional definition of the word, which means concern for yourself to the detriment of others, not Ayn Rand's custom definition which eliminates the “to the detriment of others” aspect (honestly, Ayn Rand should have just used the word “desire” instead – no unshakable negative connotations attached).

Now of course we need government, but its purpose should always be to protect us, never to provide for us (except for government employees). The task of providing for the entire population is simply too big to be handled by the government, and trying to do so cripples the economy, stripping people of their ability to provide for themselves, thus creating more poor people and increasing the size and cost of welfare programs. It's a destructive cycle that feeds into itself, and can only end in disaster. The correct solution is for the needs of the poor to be catered to through private charities, not government welfare.

Nevertheless, the author of the article does provide some good points to think about, even if he is only half-right.


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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah I see what you're saying. Fully disagree on the concept that there are different types of property though. I'll have to talk about that later though Thanks.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Like with this site there is only one thing that brings that group together. Individuals can believe or be a party to many other political platforms. Making a tea party agenda of condemning racism and homophobia seems misplaced. It 's acknowledging that the tea party has racist and homophobic elements to a greater degree than any other legitimate group. That would be false. It 's a straw man. One meets people like that but unless you 're talking a group with the expressed purpose of such, why pretend it 's a problem in your group? Ive met plenty of progressive racists. Just because a group denounces racism doesn't mean its policies don 't promote it. Less govt less taxation does not promote racism or homophobia. So if you 're such why would you want to be part of a group that already cannot further your agenda?
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. Therefore, advocating the extermination of a particular religion or national group (in your case, Islam and Arabs) qualifies as advocating genocide.
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  • Posted by Zero 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Apology accepted, Maph.

    I know you're a person of sound mind and good heart.
    (I seldom respond to those who aren't - Life is too short to tussle with buttheads and idiots .)

    We're good.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Respecting personal property, Rozar, not private property. I know, the distinction confused me too when I first heard it.

    Modern Socialists have developed the idea that there is a distinction between personal property and private property (which there kind of is, but not quite in the way they think). According to them, the two types of property are defined like this:

    Private Property = commercial and industrial property (i.e. farms, stores, shops, studios, offices, factories, etc. -- basically, the means of production).

    Personal Property = residential property and personal belongings (i.e. houses, cars, clothes, cell phones, computers, TVs, etc.).

    Essentially they want collectivized ownership and control over the means of production (private property), but are willing to allow people to keep their own houses and personal belongings (personal property).

    On the one hand, this conceptual distinction between businesses and homes is important to make, as the way government regulates each type of property must be different by necessity. But at the same time, the economic success of any nation requires that the means of production remain privately owned, so the Socialists are misguided in their attempts to collectivize ownership of private property.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Honestly, I had no idea that the word was that offensive to anyone. I hear it all the time, so I didn't realize it was considered so derogatory. I didn't think it would be a big deal. Again, I apologize for offending you.
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  • Posted by Zero 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh gawd - I just re- read my own post!

    Heyyy, I'm just sayin' I'm perv enough to know what it MEANS - not...

    OMG, with MY wife?! I don't think so!!

    I'm going away now!
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I’m not sure I want to hang with somebody that would feel comfortable using that word to describe anybody, anytime, anywhere. Maybe you should go stand in the corner with the fascist for awhile.

    *BG*
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  • Posted by Zero 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, well, just to have it said - I claim few virtues for myself -
    and it's been close to two decades since the last time I dropped out of college.

    So...
    (Ha!)
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This sounds a lot like, 'If you can't beat em, join em' kind of logic.

    It seems a little to me as if you've decided to add to the problems, rather than to confront persistently and with vigor an infection that is killing you.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Zero; "Tea Bagging", Damn, I didn't know that one and I've lived a rough life. Txs for adding that info.

    Why in the hell would you want to do that? Imagine what a sneeze would result in.
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  • Posted by Rozar 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Is that really the definition? How can you convert private property to public property while respecting private property?
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  • Posted by Zero 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Here?"
    How about ever?
    Do you only refrain from using the "N"-word around black folk?

    That's some nasty sh!t, Maph.
    Still, I accept what apology there was.

    Thick skin's a requirement in open forums - but I was kinda hopin' the education would make a difference.

    My bad.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    *Looks up social anarchism*

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anar...

    According to Wikipedia, social anarchists "believe in converting present-day private property into the commons or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property."

    Hmmm, nope. That's not me. I oppose the collectivized ownership of private property. Private property needs to remain privately owned. There needs to be a legal distinction between commercial property and residential property, certainly, but I would not support collectivization of ownership.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The laws which made abortion legal replaced previously existing laws which made it illegal. Same goes for marriage equality (with the exception of New Mexico, where marriage was never specifically defined as being exclusively between a man and a woman). So I guess technically the number of laws on the books actually stays the same regardless. Nevertheless, it isn't the number of laws that matter, but whether those laws give us freedom or take freedom away.

    And if you agree with the Tea Party's agenda, then you're one of them, regardless of whether or not you've ever officially joined one of their groups.
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  • -1
    Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You've advocated racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and genocide. You've also advocated abolishing religious freedom. Therefore, you're a fascist.
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  • -1
    Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't think discussing both pros and cons would automatically produce fascists like you. Other people might have different opinions about what exactly the pros and cons are. :P
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  • -2
    Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Alright, thanks, I'll refrain from using it here again. Sorry for offending you. ^_^
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