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What are "rights"?

Posted by nsnelson 9 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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Too often these days, people use the language of "rights" loosely. A "right" is something that one morally deserves, and it ought to be provided or at least not violated by Other people. We all have a natural right to life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. A natural right is something you deserve by nature, and nobody else can take away from you. Most fundamentally, we have a right to life, which implies you own your life (private property), which implies liberty, and if you own yourself you own your mind and your labor, and the value you produce (more private property), and the right to life implies your right to defend your life (and property), and the right to equip yourself for this self-defense. These rights are natural for all living human beings, and inalienable.

In some sense, the term "right" merely refers to a moral obligation or debt in general. If you agree to pay me $150 to play the organ for a ceremony, and I do it, then I have a "right" to demand $150 from you. But this is a very general usage, distinct from the concept of natural rights. Some rights we agree to (eg, trade), others we have by our nature as living humans.

Unfortunately, some people recognize the authority and security and prestige of the term "natural rights," and they want that positive association for other things they want, so they have tried to borrow (hijack?) this language. So they say we have a "right" to a job (and a certain wage), or a phone or TV or other standard of living and recreation, or a house, or free healthcare, or free education, or X (the growing list is potentially endless). But there is a big difference: to say a product or service is owed (like natural rights to life, etc) is to say that someone somewhere is obligated to do the work to provide them. Progressives are not merely talking about the right to pursue these things. The politicians and people demanding these "rights" are saying they must be provided to them even when they are unable or unwilling to provide them for themselves. That implies that someone "owes" them these "rights." Someone, somewhere, must be responsible to produce the value to supply these "rights." So the person who demands a free X is putting an Other person under obligation to work for person is a violation of his liberty. When John Doe demands the "right" to be provided with a good or service by Jane Roe, he is violating her natural rights.

The term "right" is rightly used for natural rights, rights we have in virtue of our nature, of being alive. Unfortunately the term "rights" is increasingly used not for what people earn, but what they deserve in spite of (or even because of) their inability to earn it. Their inability or unwillingness to produce what they want becomes a claim on the rest of us, an ever increasing mortgage on all those who do produce excess value.

Take the example of the "right to a house." (I don't know if anyone is actually claiming this is a "right," it is just an example for the sake of discussion.) Everyone, including John Doe, deserves their own house by "right," even for free if John can't pay for it and even if John is not responsible to maintain it (perhaps just because John is unable or unwilling to buy it or maintain it); if it is conditioned on John's ability to pay (maintain, etc), then it is not really like natural rights, it is just another thing that must be earned and should use different terminology. Where does John's house come from? Someone (eg, Jane Roe) has to provide it by building it or paying for it to be built. This means Jane or Other people somewhere, real people, are obligated to work for this John's "right to a house." This implicitly makes Jane and Others the slave of John, to some degree.

But this violates the natural rights of Jane and all the Other people now obligated to work for the John's house. The natural rights to life and liberty imply that I own myself (private property), and my mind and my labor and the fruit of my labor (private property), and nobody else has the "right" to violate my natural rights. Yet this is exactly what the "right to a house" (and any other good or service) does.

People like to use the language of natural rights because people hold them in high regard (natural, unalienable, etc). Ironically, by claiming the "right for John to be provided X by Other people," they are destroying the natural rights of those Other people, and so they are destroying the high doctrine of natural rights that caused them to want to use the term in the first place. A "right" to violate someone else's natural rights is a contradiction in terms.


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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A concept is an abstraction of a number of specific facts.

    So the abstract concept of "dogness" does not exist, only individual concrete dogs?

    Yes and this anti-conceptual form of argumentation is dishonest.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hello helidrvr,
    Interesting. Please elaborate. In my mind, in nature, absent society, you have the need and "right" to defend your life from predators. Unless you are the only human on the planet you have the "right" to the sustenance you have procured and the property you have developed even if it is only a fish or a cave to live in.. the "right" to keep them from other humans. You have the "right' to defend your life and that of your offspring against other humans. If these be not "rights" what would you call them?
    Respectfully,
    O.A.
    Edit: For clarity.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Gravity does not exist in nature, only falling of specific things such as leaf. Gravity is a concept that encompasses all these specifics.

    Rights are a concept that unifies a scientific reality based morality and they exist whether they are acknowledged or enforces, just like it does not matter if you think gravity exists.
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  • Posted by helidrvr 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nature is neither rational nor irrational, only humans are. There is nothing rational or irrational about gravity. It simply exists and as such is beyond reason.
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  • Posted by tkstone 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry CG, free riders are precisely why your ideas, no matter how good they are or how much you know they would help, will never work. Well intentioned programs are doomed to fail no matter how much we want them to work. Want never trumps rationality.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Interesting point about charity. That was on display in the 20 Century Motor Company, when one's ability became a mortgage on him, and people ended up despising each other.

    And even now, many staunch Progressives, who pride themselves with caring for the poor (or using the Government to coerce us and our tax dollars into taking care of the poor), have very stingy records of charity when compared to conservatives.
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  • Posted by tkstone 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would disagree. Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are indeed natural rights for all elements of nature. It is only humans that have begun to recognize them as rights and taken the first steps to recognize them as such. Progressives want to pull us back down into the crab bucket. Rights will always be in jeopardy so if we as a species wish to continue our climb up the evolutionary ladder we better continue our support of natural rights. Our mind is the only advantage we have. The only caveat would be that as Ayn Rand stated there can be no conflict between truly rational men this does not cross species. My right to life is in conflict with any form of life I need to consume to survive, but my rational mind recognizes that I must respect the life of that "food" if I expect it to continue to reproduce and provide me more food. Respecting life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is indeed a natural right.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would not equate Constitutional Rights and Natural Rights, only note the correlation. Natural rights are on a higher plane. Our Government was made to protect our natural rights; our Constitution was made to protect us from the Government.

    I think "natural" is a fine adjective. Rand says our rights stem from what it means to be a living human. Issues of survival, life and death, and even a flourishing life are rightly considered part of the nature in which we live.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think gulch comments are ranked higher. But you are right, it doesn't search by "topic." If we are discussing natural rights in a philosophical sense, I'd go to categories, click on Philosophy and scroll through those posts.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or was dbhalling talking about abstractions? You were saying abstractions do not exist in nature. So the abstract concept of "dogness" does not exist, only individual concrete dogs?
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good summary of our starting points. Thanks for sharing.

    I started reading her Capitalism, but it begins by saying to read Selfishness first, so that's where I am right now. I'll add Schwartz to my list too.

    I like to know the enemy: Do you know of any good defenses of Altruism? Sometimes Rand is very extreme, I wonder how many Altruists would affirm her definition of that philosophy.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Regarding the "right to a shelter," this has the same problems. Does that really mean a "right to be provided with a shelter"? If so, who provides? Or do you just mean a right to build a shelter and not have it taken away? If so, this would come under private property rights.

    Which makes me wonder about foraging. If it is on the private property of someone else, I don't think you have the right to forage and build a shelter without permission. I wouldn't take very kindly to people eating and camping in my garden.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 10 months ago
    Many people do not understand what a right is. A good way to get them to understand is through illustration and comparison, especially children. For example, I once talked to a group of pre-teens and compared the right of having freedom to getting a haircut. I know it seems like a weird comparison, but you'd be surprised at the discussion it created. We all sat around in a big circle and I hardly needed to speak until the end when I summed things up.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm thick. I see a search box in the upper right corner of my screen, but it brings up a generic internet search, not Galt's Gulch topics.
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  • Posted by salta 9 years, 10 months ago
    Any right can be categorized from the obligation it creates for other people.
    If it is a negative obligation (I have a right to life, which only obliges others NOT to kill me) then it is genuine.
    If it is a positive obligation (I want an education, which obliges others to pay for it) then it is NOT actually a right, but that word is used incorrectly by politicians all the time to sucker people who do not give it very much thought (it is a vote winner).

    Positive rights result in an endless spiral of costs on society. Those costs can never be fully satiated, and people build resentment. They also erode any sense of voluntary charity.
    Negative rights create no cost on others in society, and so foster mutual respect.

    In the long run, other people having a claim on you gradually kills any attitude of caring about others. Alternatively, voluntary charity actually fosters the attitude of caring.

    BTW, there are some valid positive rights, such as contractual rights, as in your example of being paid for organ playing.
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  • Posted by helidrvr 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course there is value in the concept of "rights". That is not in dispute. Philosophical concepts are critical to the success of any division-of-labor society. The fact that they are not absolute laws like gravity, but can be imagined and adapted to human needs makes them of greater valuable to humanity than mere immutable laws like gravity.
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  • Posted by jconne 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In fact no abstractions exist In the external world.

    Abstractions, including "rights", are a product of our ability to reason and reduce the effectively infinite details in reality to a hierarchy of mentally manageable units.

    A first level fact on which epistemology depends is that we can only hold a few units in focal consciousness at once. "Individual rights" is a very abstract concept based on a bunch of other ones. Ayn Rand's clear thinking on this is why we have an Objectivist movement.
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  • Posted by RobertFl 9 years, 10 months ago
    Today, most believe a "right" is something bestowed upon them by the government, hence, it can be taken away.

    Interesting comment about "right to a house".
    I would say, you do not have a right to a house, or any particular dwelling, but you would, I think, have a right to shelter.
    I don't know how one "shelters" for free in a modern society. Can't have people just crashing in the park (although they do). If we don't want people living in our parks then do we owe them a minimal place to live?
    That also raises the question, do you have a right to forage?
    I should have a right to speak, protect myself, eat, breath, and occupy a piece of land (to lay my head).
    Are those not the basic of basic needs.
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I only took issue with the word deserve, since there are a LOT of people who do not deserve the rights they have, but they are still entitled to them.
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  • Posted by helidrvr 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The nonsense is yours. Gravity DOES exist in nature. It is as inescapable for you as it is for a lion or a dog (yes, dogs exist too). Duh. This is verifiable factual truth. If you're so sure your right to survive exists in nature, I suggest you prove it by shaking hands with a hungry lion.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with you, helidrvr, and - in spite of a lot of interesting discussion on this list - I cannot support the idea of Constitutional Rights being natural rights.

    There has never been a tribe or government in history that has been able to repeal gravity. On the other hand, most tribes or governments do not respect those rights we call Constitutional Rights in their citizens or subjects.

    When someone asks me if I believe in God's Laws, I answer, "Yes, I do. I call them 'Physics'." Since Constitutional Rights can be taken away (and generally are), they must exist at a different level than Physics. These Constitutional Rights define 'the universe I want to live in' as opposed to 'the universe that exists on its own'. They are not inviolable; they just should be.

    Jan
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  • Posted by jconne 9 years, 10 months ago
    This is a solved problem as people on this group should know.

    Among Ayn Rand's many contributions to the foundations of philosophy are her essays on the nature of individual rights and the nature of government. Both are in her anthology, "Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal". The other superb resource is AynRandLexicon.com edited by Harry Binswanger in collaboration with Ayn Rand in her last decade of work.

    As with all proper reasoning, it starts with the relevant and essential facts of reality and then uses induction to identify general principles, followed by deduction to apply the general to the specific. That's a very abstract way of saying,..
    1. What facts of reality are we dealing with?
    2. What universal principles follow from those facts? In this case, in ethics and politics.
    3. How do I confirm my principles? (Necessary for integrity and independent thinking.)
    4. What concrete actions follow from that?

    On this 800th anniversary of The Magna Carta from June 1215, we get the hfoundation document for the foundation documents of the United States of America. If your read about it, you'll see that it prominently specified a right to property. That was left implicit in our Declaration of Independence and we are paying dearly for that omission starting with taxation and extending to abuse of "taking" under eminent domain law. The history of how that document came about is also interesting history.

    So one universal principle is that we have a right to that which is necessary for our functioning as human beings. That grounds intellectual, political and economic freedom which Ayn Rand described as mutually dependent. Please read about that first-hand rather than as interpreted by me or others.

    Another is that one has NO RIGHT to the product of another's labor. This counters all the mistaken, altruism-based, "government charity" programs. I like to point out that charity at the point of a gun is a contradiction in terms. Charity is properly THE CHOICE to spend what's yours on someone or something you respect.

    For anyone wanting to understand the mistaken thinking that's almost universally accepted about altruism and selfishness, I can't recommend more highly Peter Schwartz's new book, "In Defense of Selfishness". It just became available on Amazon this last week. It's brilliantly accessible while respecting the readers judgement with straightforward reasoning and lots of grounding, practical examples. I also see it as a great lesson in how I can write better.
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