and we useta-should-have-had a good view of our
fellow citizens. . when Norman Rockwell ruled. -- j
.

and 1200 people times 22 days times 24 hours
equals 633,600 gun-hours during which there were
NO accidents involving guns. . and BOTH of the
bad guys were captured with guns. . go figure. -- j
.

as long as there are criminals, they will have guns.
when worse portable death devices arrive, they will
have them. . what are the good folks to do? . I want
a defensive gizmo which stops a bad guy, and his
weapon, in his tracks. -- j
.

We just had two murderers on the loose, the first in over 150 years from the Maximum security Clinton Correctional facility. Both required bullets to end their run for freedom. NY has some of the strictest gun laws in this country but you can be sure we all had guns at the ready for the last 22 days. The Sheriff patrol could be over 60 miles away on the other side of my county when I call 911. Fortunately, my call will be to report that I just did their job and no need to rush!

Disarmament is fine provided 100% of the population become passive.

Once you have changed Human nature on a global scale, and 100% of everyone subscribes to the "Do No Harm" then their arguments "might" hold some water, except that would also eliminate hunting and protection from wild animals, so even if human nature were completely resolved, you still have animals to content with.

I've come to the point that I no longer discuss this, as the grabbers are beyond rational thought... my retort is "I carry a gun because a Cop is TOO HEAVY" then I just quietly walk away.

I fear that we're dealing with more magic and superstition. If we take away weapons, if we outlaw hate, if we outlaw mean speech, if we make everyone be nice, if..., if...--then even those that fear confrontation and taking the responsibility for pride in themselves and their own defense of person and property will be safe. It's just more religion. Facts and reality don't mean anything. It's not guns they fear, it's having to take a stand or deal with the bad man.

And they call themselves evolved. They are fools.

I read a post over @ barenakedislam.com that there is now a 'save a life, surrender your knives' campaign in the UK.

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/06/28...

I remember Ayn Rand saying that Americans generally have a positive outlook of their fellows and have a difficult time seeing evil. But when it becomes so loud it can no longer be excused or ignored.

What's scary is that the anti-gun crowd will with one breath say the cops are nothing but homicidal maniacs, and with the next say that only cops should have guns! They live in a world of magical thinking, where the very existence of a law will somehow prevent the criminal act.

In the Charleston shootings, Roof had the time to reload five times because there was no one else armed who could stop him, and yet the antigunners are horrified at the idea of any law-abiding church member having a gun, because it would have resulted in a shootout.

WOW.
I often say "You can't be argued out of something you weren't argued into.", meaning that if you arrived at your position through your feelings and your wants and your hopes, there's very little chance of getting you back.

The problem then becomes, how do we stop the gun grabbers who will NOT live in the real world? Many of them are in favor of the police dragging us out of our houses and shooting us down in the streets if we refuse to give up our weaponry. One of them is my brother. He is so frightened that he grasps at anything that might make him feel better - even if it means my death.

There is no argument possible there. I fear that we must allow them to make the first step in the "by force" discussion, and then respond in kind. They will lose, of course - what will we lose by winning?

I finally heard them as ideologues, though I've read them for years. Why does it take years!

+1 You've nailed it. The anti-gunners are a mish-mash of Platonic idealists- the world they imagine is more real than the one presented by their senses, the altruism and problem-solving skills of five year olds, and the control freaks of the world.