I agree with you, khalling... either Frank was miserable or content with the situation. I find it hard to believe she was willing to hurt him.

Here's a good article for people who characterize Rand's love scenes as "rapey":

"Confessions Of A Serial Rapist"
http://thoughtcatalog.com/anonymous/2015...

Dagny wondered about such a man, and longed for him, but wasn't sure if he could be real...and then she crashed into the gulch. Not absurd.

Good Lord! I must be in the wrong gulch.

Again, the article you linked to drops context big time. It drops context of what Dagny and Frisco's relationship was. They were best friends, partners in crime and to-be lovers. The scenes quoted are meant to illustrate how close their relationship was, and they're also written for dramatic effect, to emphasize how offensive Dagny's suggestion was to Frisco (and how contrary it was to Objectivist principles).

The fact that Frisco got so mad at her is evidence to Dagny that he cares greatly about her, which is why she treasures the memory. The whole thing is super romantic and not at all what the author of the article is trying to twist it into by dropping context.

In reality, Frisco slapping Dagny was just "tough love" - perfectly appropriate in that context given their very close relationship and non-contradictory with Objectivism's non-initiation-of-force principle.

I find it very interesting that Rand's critics always accuse her of being too black-and-white and non-nuanced, while constantly missing all the many nuances of the different characters and contexts or turning around and trying to re-frame them as evidence of contradictions in her work.

My mind has a lot to do with a choice of a partner. I chose her 52 years ago because she was the one that I wanted to be the mother of my children. That was an act of my choosing. Based on a different value, I may have made a different choice. I see nothing dark about it nor do I see a moral principle dictated by someone else.

I respectfully disagree. However I think that Ayn ACTUALLY DEFINED CORRECTLY inductive and deductive reasoning as being the intellectual glory of man.
If you could understand that the word "faith" simply means: "To see patterns and extrapolate from those given patterns" then you would already realize that Ayn had great "faith".

I'm certain that this will never be proven, however, I believe that Ayn suffered from estrogen deprivation.
That can do a number on your emotional processes.
Other than that I think that Ayn loved both men and found a different type of solace in each one.

Well AR thought homosexuality was disgusting, as somebody above pointed out, And one must not question the cult leader. Therefore, saying that somebody is a homosexual is a slur. In her world.

Yes. Must not question the cult leader. Ever. Must only worship and obey.

Really? Have you read her sex scenes?

Exactly. +1

I don't find it at all strange that a person with the amount of internal investigation and thought experimentation such as Rand would explore her relationships and would venture beyond cultural moral values. Look at Einstein as a comparison. I think the key to understanding Rand's relationships was her apparent honesty.

And I've never been convinced that Rand wrote herself into any of the characters of AS.

What I said applied to both.

You had to be there....she was not always trustworthy. Open = with permission/not restricted

would you believe that FRIENDSHIP and sex have nothing to do with each other! she loved her husband and maybe wanted to have sex with someone else and maybe HE was having sexual affairs with other women; who knows.

Personally I never gave it more than a moment’s thought.
Life is complicated and the heart wants what it wants.

Just because she was a Genius doesn't mean she was perfect.
She thought she could avoid the moral sin by doing it openly. But she was wrong. People were hurt. Of course.

It was not a mutually agreed arraignment. Those on the outside were coerced to agree by their love for their spouse. The bottom line was "accept it or else".
An open marriage is fine so long as it is entered into knowingly by both sides. Hell, it might even work for some.

But I've never held it hard against her. Who among us is sinless.
I'm not saying it's impossible - only that I've never met one.

Don't forget, Ayn Rand's stories are about idealized principles and NOT about true human nature. It shouldn't surprise anybody to discover that there are areas where she fails to practice what she "preaches". She's only human.

I have wondered about that myself. But,from what
I understand, there was no deceit by her, at least.
Maybe she thought she was in love with Branden,
but didn't want to send Frank O'Connor out into the
cold to live. And, maybe, once she was done with Branden, she realized that O'Connor was
the right man for her after all.--It does not affect
the truth of the ideas in her philosophical ideas; if they
can be demonstrated to be true, then they are
true.---Personally, I wish it had not happened;
I think it was a bad mistake; I believe in monogamy,
and lifelong monogamy is what I would want
for myself.

Dagny may not have known, but Ayn certainly did.

Jan

Branden was dishonest, didn't tell her about the other affair, that was the breaking point. Or at least that's how I understand it. She loved Frank, admired him and appreciated him. I don't pretend to be able to relate to any of it or understand it all but I get the honesty and love parts. :)

You're right about the intellect. I was trying to indicate that his intellect didn't match hers, but I expressed it poorly. As to what values he held, I cannot say as he never spoke about them, or wrote about them. He certainly appeared to be in complete agreement with Rand so all I can do is assume his values matched hers.

You don't think your mind is at all related to who you choose as a sex partner?? There's no logic behind it???
Wow, this gulch has gone to the dark side.

Some people have no sense of humor.