How Fundamentalist Collectivism Empowers Hardliners Against the Wishes of Most Americans

Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 3 months ago to Politics
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From the article:
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This is one reason that, no matter how often the courts try to kill it off, creationism ends up being presented again and again in classrooms as if it’s a scientific theory. The majority of Americans agree that evolution is how humans came to be. Despite this, as Slate recently reported, Texas students in charter schools are not only being incorrectly taught that evolution is a scientific “controversy” (it’s actually not controversial among scientists at all), but are being given religious instruction in the classroom. It’s not subtle, either, with one popular science workbook opening with a Bible quote, “In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth.”

Only about 21 percent of Americans reject the label of Christian, which means that the majority of people who accept evolution is a fact are actually Christians. So, if there’s so much Christian support for the theory of evolution, why is this such a struggle? The problem is that the Christian right has successfully framed the issue as a matter of atheists and secular humanists against Christians. While some pro-science groups like the National Center for Science Education, try really hard to avoid talking at all about religion – except to say it should not be taught in science class – the truth of the matter is the pro-evolution side is strongly associated with atheism and secular humanism.

A lot of Christians actually believe that creationism is not true and should definitely not be taught in the classroom, but coming out and saying so can feel like you’re siding with the atheist team instead of the Christian one. Unsurprisingly, then, the notion that pro-evolution forces are atheist and secularist becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nearly all the most prominent voices on the pro-science side of this issue are atheists or agnostics, because they, for obvious reasons, aren’t particularly worried about being perceived as not Christian. Once again, identity works to scare Christians into toeing the party line even if they privately disagree with what the leadership wants.


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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "innocent man"? Are you referring to Jesus Christ? He was, in fact, guilty of the crime with which He was charged. That his "trial" was a farce, and His punishment contrived is irrelevant.

    So science dismisses quantum mechanics, string theory, and Einsteinian physics. Cool.

    There are scientific theories, entertained by scientists, which involve multiple universes, interwoven universes, varying numbers of dimensions, some physical, some temporal.

    Science is indeed concerned with the supernatural.

    A simple question: what caused the Big Bang?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How did studies of DNA support Darwin?

    Have you ever heard of a Catholic monk named Gregor Mendel?

    Newtonian physics was wrong.
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  • -1
    Posted by EconomicFreedom 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    >The tests all show the evolutionary process in action.

    No they don't. In fact, Molecular dating tests often show results that are contradictory from one another. The "gold standard" in evidence is still the fossil record — which predominantly shows gaps between the phyla ("stasis"), not a plethora of incrementally transitional forms, as Darwinism predicts.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And as its taught in school, NOT college, it is incomplete and inaccurate.

    Really? So Jews and Moslems dismiss the Garden of Eden, Adam and Even, Cain and Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses and all that?

    Yes, the arrogance of fundamentalist Christianity is what built this country and made it the pinnacle of human civilization. It wasn't Moslems or even Jews who created it, nurtured it and made it great. And it SURE as hell wasn't atheists.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Could you please provide an example of Christians forcing their religious beliefs into an entire State's curriculum?

    I note with amusement that you left out Buddhists, Scientologists, Hindus, Greens and Satanists. There are example of the last two being forced into the classroom...
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is far from a slam dunk.
    We don't even know if Neanderthals were a subspecies of Homo sap, other humanoid species have been discovered contemporaneous with both Neanderthals and homo saps, and it's even possible that both came from a now-extinct species. We're not even clear whether Neanderthal and homo sap interbred.

    If a self-proclaimed "scientist" believes that a dog is a cat, he apparently *does* have the right to force his belief into the science classroom.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, of course not. It would be silly to automatically dismiss an idea simply because of its origin. That isn't the standard we go by.

    Generally speaking, science deals with the natural, while religion deals with the supernatural. Occasionally, a religion may cross over into the realm of the natural, in which case its theories can be be empirically and scientifically tested. For example, in the Quran (the holy book of the Muslims), it states that the sex of a child is determined by a man's sperm at the time of conception, which is completely true, and can be tested and proven scientifically. Yet the Quran also states that the universe was created by Allah, but we don't allow that to be taught in science classes because it cannot be tested or proven using scientific means.

    If the theory deals with natural events, and can be tested using physical means, then its origin is irrelevant. It is only the supernatural and the unprovable which must remain isolated from government and its institutions.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, actually it's not different at all. If the state starts basing its laws on nothing other than religious belief, that is establishing a state religion. If the state starts teaching religion in the institutions it controls, that is also establishing a state religion.

    The First Amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," and I think they meant it.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 3 months ago
    Over 175 posts now? Wow, I guess I really found a hot-button topic... >_>
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  • -1
    Posted by EconomicFreedom 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    >Let me repeat my recommendation of Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God."

    Thank you. And in turn, let me repeat my recommendation of Stephen Meyer's "Signature in the Cell" and "Darwin's Doubt."

    >One is that the scientific basis of evolution has been tested over and over in thousands of ways

    Tested and failed. Name one test Darwinism has passed.

    >Second is that opposition to evolution is all but entirely outside the scientific community

    Indeed? See:

    "Dissent from Darwin"
    http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/index.p...

    and,

    "A Dissent from Darwinism"
    downloadable PDF of scientists who agreed to become signatories to the following:

    "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

    "This was last publicly updated July 2013. Scientists listed by doctoral degree or current position."

    Enjoy!
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It sure is nice to be in a place where my sexist statement didn't rule out the possibility I presented.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is not so. DNA evidence cannot find the direct lines of lineage to bacteria and many other single cell organisms. There is no proof. Here is an assumption about the origins of eukaryotes: Bacteria were also involved in the second great evolutionary divergence, that of the archaea and eukaryotes. Here, eukaryotes resulted from the entering of ancient bacteria into endosymbiotic associations with the ancestors of eukaryotic cells, which were themselves possibly related to the Archaea.[21][22] This involved the engulfment by proto-eukaryotic cells of alpha-proteobacterial symbionts to form either mitochondria or hydrogenosomes, which are still found in all known Eukarya (sometimes in highly reduced form, e.g. in ancient "amitochondrial" protozoa). Later on, some eukaryotes that already contained mitochondria also engulfed cyanobacterial-like organisms. This led to the formation of chloroplasts in algae and plants. There are also some algae that originated from even later endosymbiotic events. Here, eukaryotes engulfed a eukaryotic algae that developed into a "second-generation" plastid.[23][24] This is known as secondary endosymbiosis.

    There is no proof that Archae swallowed Bacteria and formed an endosymbiotic relationship. Words like probably are not proof.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Let's take this back a step.If you say Christians and Jews force( it is not force simply to present a different point of view) a different theory of how it all started. How is that different than what Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, believe? What you are saying is reject it without proof. There is no proof.At best it is all a theory that different groups have.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Doesn't even exist there. What it says is that the government shall not establish a state religion, not that all religious speech must be excluded from any state activity. Very different.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What is the lineage that has been confirmed by molecular biology? They don't know.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You people who are so fanatical about "separation of church and state." One, it doesn't exist in any document that forms the basis or laws of these United States. However, the general principle is that the government not establish a government approved religion. And two, permitting religious discussion and even practice by participants in government was actually encouraged.
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How separate? Does that mean if a religion has a hypothesis then that hypothesis is not to be presented in any form at any public building? One example is that the earth was once a hyperbaric chamber and that is the reason species were so much larger than they are now. Do we eliminate all scientific exploration of this hypothesis simply because it originated in a religious text?
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  • Posted by rlewellen 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well I am sure he can read this, so I can't be talking behind anyone's back at all.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is unlikely that that would be the case. However, there are other means to accomplish the objective without government running the school system.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know who you studied theology from, but I know of only one that demands full acceptance or total rejection (in the form of loss of life). Nearly all others, of which I am aware and knowledgeable, accept that humans are fallible.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is not only predators. It is about mutations that allow for a higher rate of survival. And the mutations would have to occur, otherwise what made them stop?
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