Yes, Conservatives, Islam Is a Religion
Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
I've noticed on the site lately, more and more comments by our more conservative and religious members speaking about the evil of Islam. I've wanted to reply to many of those commenters and posters about the topic of this article, and after reading this article, I'm glad I waited. I couldn't have said it any better. It's not Islam that's the problem--it's religion.
"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.
Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.
'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .
Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .
To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'
If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.
Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.
The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."
Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.
Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?
"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.
Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.
'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .
Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .
To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'
If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.
Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.
The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."
Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.
Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?
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This country wouldn't exist if American Christianity were the Christianity of the 7th century.
Good luck with that...
The role of reflected light, the eye, and nerves to the brain is the mechanism of how we see, not an obstruction to it. Sight is the form in which we are directly aware of reality when we look. Every perception must exist in some specific form, limited to the nature of what it is. Rational beliefs are knowledge of reality we know to be true based on perception of reality and inferred through reason conceptually.
The notion that we are only aware of a phenomenal world of our own making, forever cut off from "things in themselves" is thoroughly Kantian nihilism undermining our ability to know the world through reason based on our sense organs.
From Ayn Rand's For the New Intellectual:
"Even apart from the fact that Kant's theory of the "categories'' as the source of man's concepts was a preposterous invention, his argument amounted to a negation, not only of man's consciousness, but of any consciousness, of consciousness as such. His argument, in essence, ran as follows: man is limited to a consciousness of a specific nature, which perceives by specific means and no others, therefore, his consciousness is not valid; man is blind, because he has eyes—deaf, because he has ears—deluded, because he has a mind—and the things he perceives do not exist, because he perceives them."
A couple of observations.
Proving that something does not exist, without limitations of space and time is always impossible. We quickly approach here the question of what IS means. Remember Clinton's testimony? [I meant the verb, not the Islamic State ;-)]
I think that it would be more accurate to say that atheists do not believe in existence of any gods. I think that claiming that atheism is a religion distorts both concepts. Atheism may be an ideology or a philosophy, but it certainly is not a religion.
Some of the religious people cruising around the Gulch try to describe atheism and Objectivism both as religions. Whether consciously or unconsciously, they try to smear both by depriving them of their basic rationality.
The concept of god is such a deep abstraction. The analysis of the concept quickly leads to considering the meaning of understanding and faith. One of the supreme Christian authorities, Augustine of Hippo, wrote about this. Because I vehemently disagree with his description of those two concepts (understanding and faith), I posted a reaction to his quote in the Gulch. If you are interested, here it is:
Is Augustin of Hippo Right? ... Or Not? - Galt's Gulch. If you search for Augustine of Hippo, it will show up on the list in philosophy category.
Stay well!
All those who for religious reasons have opposed abortion, contraception, stem cell research, and supported taxes for welfare have hurt a lot of people. The lack of rational defense of a free society by those insisting rights come from a god, abandoning the realm of reason to the left, is preventing the cultural and intellectual reform that is necessary and without which will not only continue to harm people but may result in losing the country entirely. Yes the religionists are hurting people on a grand scale.
To believe there's no Creator, we must believe (as what pointed out by another Gulcher last week) that it's possible to place all the pieces of a watch in a bag along with a lit stick of dynamite. After the explosion, the result will be a perfectly tuned precision watch. Creation requires a creator.
Oh, and you completely avoided the point about proving the existence of love. Lack of proof or ability to scientifically demonstrate doesn't negate existence.
Faith is incompatible with reason. They are opposites. You know that and you know why pushing religion is incompatible with the purpose of this forum. Continuing to do so is obnoxious and inappropriate.
Islam was not founded for "criminal activity" exploiting "landmarks" and "people" for "credibility". Islam meant Submission to God and Moslem meant True Believers. Islam is an offshoot of the Judaism and Christianity prevalent in the 7th century. It came from the same primitive religious tribal mentality common to the whole region by the 7th century. It was heavily influenced by the Judaism and Christianity that dominated from the Roman Empire and not surprisingly shares the same basic beliefs and primitive mentality of faith, myth, and groveling before a single god, augmenting the personality cult with Mohammed as its own prophet. Mohammed was a religious fanatic who opposed the multiple-idoltry, gambling, etc. that he saw around him at Mecca and was an evangelist trying to "save" people based on the Judaism and Christianity he saw was uniting the tribes nearby.
To try to explain away Islam to the proponents of faith embarrassed by it today as nothing but an excuse for crime is preposterously anti-intellectual and a-historical.
Rand was a great intellect, but here philosophy wasn't perfect. The fundamental flaw was her rejection of Judeo-Christian morality as the keystone to the freedom and liberty of western civilization. To not recognize this fact is to fundamentally misunderstand what makes the freedom cherished by this group possible.
The truly great minds of science (Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, Einstein, etc.) would profoundly disagree with your assessment the relationship between science, reason, and religion.
You also confuse "the church" with religion and faith. The Enlightenment was about throwing religion, it was about throwing off the tyranny of the church.
And, your assertion about the founding of America is also at odds with historical record. The Founding Fathers were profoundly religious and recognized that freedom and liberty (our natural rights) were endowed to us by "our Creator". You may want to go back and review the Declaration of Independence and personal writings of the Founding Fathers.
Science and reason are mission critical, but we should never be so arrogant as to presume that out inability to understand/prove the existence of something negates its existence.
There is simply no way to honestly judge history without recognizing that Judeo-Christian principles are what makes freedom and liberty possible.
Evaluate Islam for Islam. Evaluate each individual Christian sect for its own. Evaluate socialism for socialism, fascism for fascism, and Objectivism for Objectivism. Ad infinitum.
Do I find objections in the religion called Islam? Absolutely - the main one being the use of violence and deceit codified within that belief set as being permissible tactics to further the religion itself. That alone is enough for me to decry it as being false and anti-freedom.
Why do I decry socialism? Because it is nothing more than feudalism by deceit: you still have a small cabal of rulers who glut themselves on the works of the masses while pitting the masses against themselves. Communism and fascism have similar flaws.
Reason is essential to a free society and a free society cannot be defended without a philosophy of reason. Judeo-Christian dogma is incompatible with that, was not the source of the founding of this country, and cannot be used to defend it.
Reason and science preclude faith because fantasy is not method of cognition. Rejecting faith in the supernatural and its claims don't need to be disproved. This has nothing to do with the strawman claim of already knowing all that's possible to understand. Obviously, science is a process of expanding knowledge -- including knowledge of the atomic structure of matter, electromagnetic fields, and much more we can't reach out and "touch".
The church and its mentality of mysticism grovelling before the supernatural has a long history of rejecting science as human "arrogance". The Enlightenment overthrew the intellectual dominance of that nihilism, and resulted in the founding of America and an increase in human well-being in only a few centuries that had been undreamed of for millennia.
Islam like Hillary and Soros are the result of repeatedly following dead end. For one their motive is false.Their conclusions do not serve to perpetuate and evolve the species. But then the same may be said for Republicans and Democrats.
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