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Yes, Conservatives, Islam Is a Religion

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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I've noticed on the site lately, more and more comments by our more conservative and religious members speaking about the evil of Islam. I've wanted to reply to many of those commenters and posters about the topic of this article, and after reading this article, I'm glad I waited. I couldn't have said it any better. It's not Islam that's the problem--it's religion.



"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.

Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.

'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .

Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .

To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'

If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.

Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.

The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."



Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.

Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have Crisis and two others on order. I see you are a neighbor. Now I must acquire your books. I am nothing if not a sponge in the reading department. If you find the other authors name pass them on please. do you also play guitar?

    On the wish list for next payday. Both of them.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I've never harmed a human being because of my beliefs - my faith or otherwise (though I have wanted to belt a liberal more than a few times). I suspect the large majority of people in this country, can't speak for others, have never harmed someone because of their religious beliefs.

    As you know, I write speculative sci-fi...if I was as rigid as staunch objectivism demands I couldn't write effectively. I find the 'possibility' fascinating, intriguing, and, in some capacity, seductive.

    Respect.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    AJ, I have no way of determining what happens after we die. As far as I know, we die, and our bodies return to the Earth from which they came. As to after that, it's not a question that can be answered rationally with reason or experimentation.

    For myself, I'm not going to spend a minute of the life I have worrying or wondering about something I can find no way of knowing, nor am I going to spend any energy or thought preparing for some imagined transformation or apologizing to some deity in another dimension for what I've done or not with my life.

    At the end, I will have lived. And I won't have harmed another human because his religion says something different than what another says.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I hereby nominate allosaur to be the official 'triangle of the Gulch'.

    Do I hear as second?

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Offhand, I remember the authors name, Bernard Lewis, but not the titles. I read two of his books.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard...

    There are three others, not written by Mr. Lewis, which I have to look up to member the authors and titles..

    Prior to writing commentary (which you can find on-line by searching my name) I made sure I was not going to be ignorant of the issue of islam.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Excellent then what followup books or sources do you recommend? As for assessing death it's what happens when the heart stops and the life signs head south and some come back from whatever is the cross over point. I was in no condition to take notes. I'll un-negate my statement. It's my statement. It serves me well. I don't live nor die for anyone else. Unlike many I am not afraid of the dark and pay no heed to questions that cannot be answered. I leave that to the witch doctors.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Certainly its your right to believe so. To declare it conclusively you'd have to experience death and tell us, which would negate your statement. Until such time science can monitor or assess what happens after a life expires the jury is out and anyone's statement is just a statement of preference.

    As for what I posted about, those are facts of islam. Yes, I'm adequately read when it comes to islam and its history before I make statements.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would never state that 'all humans are criminals'. I do think however that life is neither good or bad, right or wrong--life just is, and has nothing within it or as a part of it, except for the abstractions of humanity, to measure, want to measure, or need to measure such things.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago
    One might turn the whole concersation around just by saying Yes Liberals or secular progressives Islam is a Religion. One which you have openly sworn to destroy along with the others.As for the ACLU I live in Bight, ME
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And after death there is no life. One makes his or her own fate and lies in it for eternity. The rest is wishful thinking.

    Second the above activities were learned from the Mongols. Rather good at what they did. The Ka Khan ruled for religous tolerance those who failed to obey were beheaded.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The various Christian sects have managed not to get in a 'god-wagging' contest for the last couple of hundred years, so war is not inevitable amongst a mixture of religions, so long as it is denied governmental power. In context of this post, I would say that the problems we are having with Islam is different from a discussion of religion per se. It is the current permutation of Islam (love these new formatting options) that is itself the problem we have to solve.

    I think that the majority of the human race, given ample philosophical education and free choice, would choose a socialist society for themselves: they would be willing to surrender their right of self-determination in exchange for security. And I think that these people should have the right to that choice.

    The matrix in which those socialist communes must nest is a capitalistic one, though: we can see through history that a socialist society cannot tolerate free will and self-determination within it; a capitalist society can and has tolerated socialist enclaves within its boundaries.

    Similarly, most people will currently choose some extrinsic religion that assures them that they are doing right. It is important that the matrix in which these religions exist makes clear the right of the individual to change religions or to abjure them entirely. The fact that you ask the question, "Where is your life, your property, your betterment of life at in any of that?" just means that you are someone who would not make that choice. Others, most others, I think, would choose differently.

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Exactly where it should be. I had to clear some junk out of the ay to get the threads lined up properly. Meaning....i will comment on religion in general but follow the First Amendment just to see if I can get away with it.

    Generally gods is plural I'm monotheistic.There is only one god so that's not a problem. Most of the divisions and schisms are 'silly semantics.'

    Wars are economic the reasons put forth are more often than not - religious - and are used a propagada to gain the support of cannon fodder. and the cannons hand maiden baby factories.

    Being a secular progressive is a very difficult way to commit suicide and to no purpose under heaven.



    That's close enough.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And replaced with what? I have no idea except conjecture amd possibilities as far as the general populaion is concerned. Will man allow it to die or will it's importance as a convenient scapegoat for war be enough reason to keep it alive. I don't see wars and conflicts ceasing. Only the players. The strong survive the weak fall by the wayside. Let me change that. Only the strong who have the will to survive will continue. Those without the will to survive no matter how strong will fall by the wayside. Religion will be the excuse and economics the reason.

    The Muslims have se themselves up or have been set upto take the fall. Either way or both works for me.

    But then so have the citizens of the ÜSSA.

    To the common man the finger on the gas chamber button is immaterial.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 9 months ago
    That's why I do not 'Believe'; I observe as objectively as possible and posit in degrees of probability unless it is duplicatable and repeatable.
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Don't get me started on Christianity "as it should be" and how the Bible talks about it and Government as it is today. Key word as it is today and has been for the past few thousand years.

    But the answer for right now is no.
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