Yes, Conservatives, Islam Is a Religion
Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
I've noticed on the site lately, more and more comments by our more conservative and religious members speaking about the evil of Islam. I've wanted to reply to many of those commenters and posters about the topic of this article, and after reading this article, I'm glad I waited. I couldn't have said it any better. It's not Islam that's the problem--it's religion.
"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.
Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.
'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .
Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .
To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'
If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.
Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.
The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."
Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.
Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?
"If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must accurately identify Islam for what it is. It’s a religion.
Why does it matter whether we call this religion a religion? It matters (among other reasons) because recognizing Islam as a religion is the first step in dealing with the problem of jihad—a problem that is much broader than the tenets of Islam calling for the submission or murder of infidels. As I show in “Islamic Jihad and Western Faith,” the fundamental problem is not the specific tenets of Islam, but the idea that faith is a means of knowledge.
'If people can know by means of faith that God exists, what He wills to be true, that His will is the moral law, and what He commands people to do, then they can know literally anything to be true. If a person’s “spiritual sense” tells him that God says he should love his neighbor, then he knows he should love his neighbor. If it tells him that God says he should love his enemies, then he knows he should love them. If it tells him that God says he should turn the other cheek if someone strikes him, then he knows what to do when that happens. If it tells him that God says to kill his son, then he knows he must do so. If it later tells him that God says not to kill his son, then he knows he should not. If it tells him that God says he should convert or kill unbelievers, then he knows he should convert or kill unbelievers. If it tells him that God says the Koran is the word of God and that if he fails to believe and obey every word of it he will burn in hell, then he knows that to be true. . . .
Either faith is a means of knowledge, or it is not. If it is a means of knowledge, then it is a means of knowledge. If faith is a means of divining truth, then whatever anyone divines by means of faith is by that fact true. If faith is a means of knowledge, then the tenets of Islam—which are “known” by means of faith—are true, in which case Muslims should convert or kill infidels. By what standard can an advocate of faith say otherwise? . . .
To lend credence to the notion that faith is a means of knowledge is to support and encourage Islamic regimes and jihadist groups at the most fundamental level possible: the epistemological level. It is to say to them, in effect: “Whatever our disagreements, your method of arriving at truth and knowledge is correct.” Well, if their method is correct, how can the content they “know” by means of it be incorrect?'
If Westerners want to win the cultural war against Islam, we must be willing to recognize—and to openly acknowledge—the fundamental and relevant truths of the matter. Those truths include the fact that Islam is a religion, and the fact that faith is not a means of knowledge.
Conservatives are uncomfortable with these facts because they are religious themselves, and they want religion and faith to be good things. But discomfort with facts doesn’t alter them. And wanting things to be good doesn’t make them so.
The solution to discomfort arising from the fact that Islam is a religion is not to pretend that Islam is not a religion, but to recognize and accept the fact that religion as such is inherently irrational and potentially murderous because it posits a non-rational means of knowledge."
Let's see what others think of this approach to solving the problems of conflicts with ISLAM.
Is Islam any more wrong in that origin of knowledge, than Christianity or Judaism or any other source of supernatural knowledge?
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Here are some shining examples of how islam and Christianity having nothing in common:
In the Old Testament ~ the Garden of Eden is on earth.
Mohammed says that is a lie and it was in heaven.
In the Old Testament, Cain killed Able because of Cain's jealousy over his perceived view that God had a higher preference for Able.
Mohammed said the reason why Cain killed Able was because Cain was jealous of Able's wife, who was in fact Able's sister. (Yes, incest is perfectly allowed in islam)
In the Old Testament, God instructed Noah to build an Ark so as to rescue animals from both sexes (hey, why both sexes and not just males? Uh, because homosexuality ISN'T sustainable....just sayin') because God was going to destroy the earth and rid the sinful nature that humanity had become lost to.
Mohammed said Noah cursed the people who had made fun of him because Noah was a prophet and because of that, the people needed to submit to him. And when the people refused to acknowledge him as a prophet, allah sent forth a flood to punish all who denied Noah the prophet status.
In the New Testament, Jesus died on the cross for EVERYONE's sin's. On the 3rd day, He arose from the dead and was seen by multiple people.
Mohammed said Jesus didn't die, but in fact had someone else go his place.
Every single Commandment that God gave the Jewish people was directly broken by Mohammed. How many did Jesus break?
Perhaps the most disgusting thing Mohammed ever did was when he was caught on top of his dead aunt in the grave. And when his followers asked him what he doing, he replied that he had a revelation and that he had to forgive her of her sins and the only way he could do that was by sexual contact.
You really expect me to believe your statement that islam is a variance of Christianity? The mormon thing as well: You need to read (KJV only) Revelations Chapter 22, verses 18 and 19. Joe Smith clearly didn't heed the warnings. And nope, I am not a god, and nor will I ever become one and become in charge of my own damn planet.
I've read more than enough of islam since 1996 to be absolutely beyond disgusted with it. I hate getting involved in discussions about Christianity on a forum that supports AR, but it would be wrong for me to stay quiet when I read your first line KNOWING you are quite wrong.
Want to discuss this in more detail? A debate on mormonism perhaps and how it closely follows the masons far more than Christianity? No problem, but not in this forum.
I do however, completely agree with your statement about if we declared war on the Unitarians and Mormons they would be considered terrorists. And that why 'the war on terrorism', ~ a tactic of war, is so incredibly stupid and a waste of life, (American lives) and our $$.
For the Globalists, environmentalism is their religion.
I'm currently reading a book, 'Stephen Hawking Smoked My Socks' by Hilton Radcliffe that addresses the difficulties in today's science that have resulted from 'belief systems' in the performance of science, and how extremely difficult it is for any human to recognize his own beliefs and separate them from his interpretation and/or application of facts. I highly recommend Radcliffe's writing to any Objectivist.
Again, Objectivism is a life philosophy and serves no use once dead. Why does faith (I'm not being on religions) bother people here so much?
As for ghosts, I need more evidence that is incontrovertible to make them a viable reality. Unfortunately, that evidence is sorely lacking.
ISLAM is a Theocracy. A Theocracy combines both religion AND government. You cannot separate the two in any way since they both exist a a single thing.
Do not kid yourselves, we are at war with a Government, not just a religion.
Now, many decades later, my thinking has evolved to a point where I have defined a god concept that is way outside of the conventional major religion based concepts. To the point where I don't use the word god anymore, too much baggage. It works for me and is based upon the best empirical knowledge that I have arrived at holding that reality exists outside of one's consciousness.
The link with this original post is great. I had not seen this site to date. I think that what it is stepping towards is that western conservatives need to examine their own basis of culture in religion as well. I think if that is accepted and the fundamentals and the history is examined, it will emerge true that Judeo-Christian traditions in the long slog of history have been a positive influence. The fundamental teachings of Christ do hold that the individual is foremost. And that is an important root for western culture as opposed to some others. That is what conservatives need to remember and bring forth as the true distinction between cultures/religions that do hold that value and those that are fundamentally collectivist in nature.
Heavy stuff and I like it.
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