No, because there is objective right and wrong. Your position would have us believe that George Washington and Bin Laden were both freedom fighters, based on a subjective set of values, which is patent nonsense.
Secular Progressives. A part of using carefully selected court cases to cause change in the Constitution with Amendments by, primarily, the ACLU. (Example is the Massachusetts suit that pointed out the state had not defined marriage as between man and women to a very liberal Judge - then spread to other states and recently the same sex marriage controversy in Tennessee.) 2005 was the year of court cases against Christmas displays or use of the word in a number of jurisdictions nation wide. Proponent funders George Soros and offshore based billionaire investment banker and Peter Lewis the billionaire CEO of Progressive Insrance and George Lakoff (knows as the Yoda of the SP movement a Berkely UC California Professor though we thought it insulting to Yoda so changed his name to Grinch.)
Together they fund and guide MoveOn, Open Society Institute and the ACLU - the left wing extremists. You will see some posts here from time to time from their adherents all in the same pattern dictated by the Lakoff book Frame The Debate. Easy to spot by refusal to answer questions and constantly changing the question and the constant hammering of the same theme. Their right to legally buy elections through targeting areas and campaigns with soft money came out as I have the right without explanation to all take all of your rights without exception.
The non-existent right was countered by listing five or six existing rights at which point the SP disappeared and has never returned - at least under that name. They do not handle direct confrontation nor facts well and rely on the Big Lie technique more often that not.... Two of their acolytes are Comrade Nancy Pelosillyni promoter of the tax on embedded tax VAT system and Comrade Wicked Witch of the Left Hillary Clinton with her enhanced tax system and most of the left wing of the leftist Government Party. (Democrats and cave in a second bi-partisan members of the Republican Party.) Soros stated goal is forced confiscation of wealth in excess of 50 million except for his own which is kept in an offshore bank. That is the start point.
(I personally define the left as those who believe in and practice government control of citizens as opposed to citizen control of government and consider the Republicans to be the right wing OF the left. A manufactured condition by moving the signpost marked Center to the center of the left as opposed to it's proper position as the center of USA political thought the Constitution. Easier to understand what they really do in Washington DC as opposed to what they say or said they were going to do. i do not accept their twisted definitions nor their propaganda but consider left and right to be those who support government control of citizens and citizen control of governments as the two opposing factions.As far as Soros, Lewis, and Lakoff I would define them as enemies domestic in my personal opinion.)
Same thing as a civilian target. Refer you to Carlos Marighella and the Cycle of Repression. Season Six I believe of 24 rapidly showed the system in action by the fast changing targets making it difficult to protect everything all of the time. When applied by a government the Cycle of Repression (for example the economic cycle of the left) is even more effective than when applied by some small underfunded revolutionary group. The target and methods in both cases are the same. Terrorize innocent bystanders with a purpose of showing they are not being protected thus inviting more and more - permanently temporary -suspensions of civil liberties. Prime Example today the Patriot Act.
You make my point. Your beliefs are better by the standard of your beliefs. (logical error alert)
So, if you're 'pushed' by the others, God will be on your 'side'. Your justification doesn't originate from the natural rights of man, it comes from your subjective beliefs...just as the jihadist.
You may not like the equivalence of your beliefs, stripped of their particulars, but at that level the jihadist justification is equal to yours.
Fine, but the liberal, progressive pussies in the US WILL NOT see that this is a New Kind Of War and that boots on the ground will NOT be the best strategy for combat.
What heartens me is that, despite the wussiness of so many Americans, it appears that the leaders of Other Nations, for whatever reasons, are beginning to react to the attacks and danger BY DOING Something about it.
Maybe our 'esteemed Leader' will lead from behind and follow those other countries... so he can blame others for his failures Again.
And sorry, Israel is not The Problem. People (Islamist Fundamentalists) who clearly announce that they want to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel have just about the exact same goals as any jihadist we might complain about here. Same goals, slightly different strategy, but at the core, the same hatred.
A few hundred extra years of maturity? I have NO idea, but a few guesses.
I tend to believe that poverty is one driving force... when a lot of people have no hope of achieving a comfortable and secure, safe life, they react by hating people they can blame for their own lack or shortcomings.
Then comes power and control, so leaders take advantage of that jealousy and turn it into anger and hatred, as opposed to helping the 'needy' do what's needed to change their situation in some positive way. Witness the anger of black religious leaders in the US.
Redistribution of wealth will never be a cure for lack of education and development of marketable skills, though lots of people seem to believe that in their hearts, if not their heads.
I think you're confusing my post with another who actually thought Hitler was a catholic. I know he was NOT. I'm well aware of Hitler's disdain for Christianity and his abolition of it from the public square.
Don't ever consider that it's not the Atheism that's the driving force, it's the desire for power and control over other people, and atheism is antithetical to THAT urge. Unless you're a Believer and desire to use that kind of 'logic' to tar any and all atheists with it.
So gunpowder and the printing press are examples of Christian armies committing wasteful slaughter??? When in the last 100, or even 200, years have Christian armies gone to war to slaughter innocents?
Salty, I sit falsely accused. Cut it out... I offered references to sources that refute sources referenced by others... I did not profess belief that either side is Right or Wrong.
I'm an atheist. My beliefs on the subject are orthogonal to most others' beliefs and irrelevant to this discussion... just ask any Believer... :)
You would be well served to read Galileo, Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, and other great minds of science to learn of how science puts us closer to God rather than your little Festinger. The religion of the Nazis was Nazism. Hitler banned Christianity from the public square and had an intense hatred for it.
I liked the first video... forwarded it to a large number of friends and acquaintances... and then forwarded the second link with a comment that 'the second link cancelled out my support for the first one.'
Except Mao, Stalin, Kim Jong, and countless other atheists are responsible for millions more deaths than Judeo-Christians. The reason is simple... it's antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
To start, we DESTROY Isis. We allow Israel free reign. We announce to Iran that if they continue those that harm America or our allies, we will crush them. We defeat them just as we did the Nazis and the Japanese. We don't want war, because it's awful and runs counter to our beliefs, but if evil will not not surrender, it must be vanished.
It's not just that Islam is stuck 900 years ago and wants the rest of the world there, too. Islam hasn't experienced a reformation and joined modernity, because it can't. There's a reason why there aren't examples of Christian armies slaughtering innocents. It's because it's antithetical to the teachings of Christ. By contrast, jihad is a core principle of Islam. Attempting to establish a moral equivelance argument is dangerously naive.
Then why are you asserting that you Bible references are correct and true? Either you're citing something that you believe is true, in which case we have a basis for discussion, or the Bible is false, in which case your citations could be from Moby Dick, and would carry the same weight. Please try to be consistent
And US, don't a lot of 'defenders' say exactly the same thing about Islam?! A LOT of the Bible was written and rewritten LONG after JC departed this mortal coil, and the Koran was dictated by an illiterate to scribes who could have written down anything they wanted yet parroted back similar words if Mohammed asked for a 'playback.'
So there are imposters on both (or all) sides.... That's not an argument for WHY they exist or why so many people follow them!
Unless you try to make THAT the subject of this 'discussion,' and that certainly is not MY goal.
So what if the actual number is 1%, 5%, 10%, 20% or any other number?
I see the problem as 'here's a belief system that recruits people into itself with the goal of making Everyone In The World One of "us" and exterminating anyone who refuses.
Screw the polls. The number is NOT the problem. The culture, ethics and morals 'is the problem.'
Who moved the goal posts, AG? I 'merely' stated that a LOT of mass movements in history have relied on the writings of Esteemed Leader or "ultimate source of Right and Knowledge" whether it's attributed to Jesus or Mao or whomever.
As an atheist, I guess it's a bit difficult for me to consider atheism as a 'religion' since I've never seen any "Good Book" cited as The Source Everyone Must Derive Their Ethics and Morals From, while most acknowledged 'religions' do...
What I have seen is a lot of 'religionists' make up definitions for atheism that could portray atheism as a 'religion,' but only if those narrow definitions are used, and usually only applicable to 'defining atheism as a religion.'
Atheists tend to start with 'prove it' and religionists tend to answer with "My Holy Book says it's true, and that's all the proof I need."... which is a pretty crappy 'proof' from any other viewpoint. :)
And your point is? You have not directed your attention to the religion of German soldiers who murdered Jews by the millions.
I am constantly amazed at the number of people who are willing to fight to the death for their imaginary gods they heard about in a book or books written by people who thought the earth was flat and did not know where the sun went at night. Fortunately, Festinger explained the psychological issue in his 1954 book on cognitive dissonance. Love your little god, that is fine. Just don't initiate force against others who don't believe as do you. All too many Christians (and others of the Abrahamic faiths have).
Interesting question to pose to a self-described atheist, wouldn't you say? I was just offering Googled references to indicate that both 'testaments' have similar content... :)
So, to answer your question, "of course not!" Next Question?
Previous comments... You are currently on page 2.
Together they fund and guide MoveOn, Open Society Institute and the ACLU - the left wing extremists. You will see some posts here from time to time from their adherents all in the same pattern dictated by the Lakoff book Frame The Debate. Easy to spot by refusal to answer questions and constantly changing the question and the constant hammering of the same theme. Their right to legally buy elections through targeting areas and campaigns with soft money came out as I have the right without explanation to all take all of your rights without exception.
The non-existent right was countered by listing five or six existing rights at which point the SP disappeared and has never returned - at least under that name. They do not handle direct confrontation nor facts well and rely on the Big Lie technique more often that not.... Two of their acolytes are Comrade Nancy Pelosillyni promoter of the tax on embedded tax VAT system and Comrade Wicked Witch of the Left Hillary Clinton with her enhanced tax system and most of the left wing of the leftist Government Party. (Democrats and cave in a second bi-partisan members of the Republican Party.) Soros stated goal is forced confiscation of wealth in excess of 50 million except for his own which is kept in an offshore bank. That is the start point.
(I personally define the left as those who believe in and practice government control of citizens as opposed to citizen control of government and consider the Republicans to be the right wing OF the left. A manufactured condition by moving the signpost marked Center to the center of the left as opposed to it's proper position as the center of USA political thought the Constitution. Easier to understand what they really do in Washington DC as opposed to what they say or said they were going to do. i do not accept their twisted definitions nor their propaganda but consider left and right to be those who support government control of citizens and citizen control of governments as the two opposing factions.As far as Soros, Lewis, and Lakoff I would define them as enemies domestic in my personal opinion.)
Short version to your question.
So, if you're 'pushed' by the others, God will be on your 'side'. Your justification doesn't originate from the natural rights of man, it comes from your subjective beliefs...just as the jihadist.
You may not like the equivalence of your beliefs, stripped of their particulars, but at that level the jihadist justification is equal to yours.
What heartens me is that, despite the wussiness of so many Americans, it appears that the leaders of Other Nations, for whatever reasons, are beginning to react to the attacks and danger BY DOING Something about it.
Maybe our 'esteemed Leader' will lead from behind and follow those other countries... so he can blame others for his failures Again.
And sorry, Israel is not The Problem. People (Islamist Fundamentalists) who clearly announce that they want to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel have just about the exact same goals as any jihadist we might complain about here. Same goals, slightly different strategy, but at the core, the same hatred.
Been to Israel lately? I have.
I tend to believe that poverty is one driving force... when a lot of people have no hope of achieving a comfortable and secure, safe life, they react by hating people they can blame for their own lack or shortcomings.
Then comes power and control, so leaders take advantage of that jealousy and turn it into anger and hatred, as opposed to helping the 'needy' do what's needed to change their situation in some positive way. Witness the anger of black religious leaders in the US.
Redistribution of wealth will never be a cure for lack of education and development of marketable skills, though lots of people seem to believe that in their hearts, if not their heads.
I offered references to sources that refute sources referenced by others... I did not profess belief that either side is Right or Wrong.
I'm an atheist. My beliefs on the subject are orthogonal to most others' beliefs and irrelevant to this discussion... just ask any Believer... :)
The religion of the Nazis was Nazism. Hitler banned Christianity from the public square and had an intense hatred for it.
Thanks for the links.
The reason is simple... it's antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
We defeat them just as we did the Nazis and the Japanese. We don't want war, because it's awful and runs counter to our beliefs, but if evil will not not surrender, it must be vanished.
There's a reason why there aren't examples of Christian armies slaughtering innocents. It's because it's antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
By contrast, jihad is a core principle of Islam.
Attempting to establish a moral equivelance argument is dangerously naive.
A LOT of the Bible was written and rewritten LONG after JC departed this mortal coil, and the Koran was dictated by an illiterate to scribes who could have written down anything they wanted yet parroted back similar words if Mohammed asked for a 'playback.'
So there are imposters on both (or all) sides....
That's not an argument for WHY they exist or why so many people follow them!
Unless you try to make THAT the subject of this 'discussion,' and that certainly is not MY goal.
I see the problem as 'here's a belief system that recruits people into itself with the goal of making Everyone In The World One of "us" and exterminating anyone who refuses.
Screw the polls. The number is NOT the problem. The culture, ethics and morals 'is the problem.'
So, how would one go about changing such 'minds'?
As an atheist, I guess it's a bit difficult for me to consider atheism as a 'religion' since I've never seen any "Good Book" cited as The Source Everyone Must Derive Their Ethics and Morals From, while most acknowledged 'religions' do...
What I have seen is a lot of 'religionists' make up definitions for atheism that could portray atheism as a 'religion,' but only if those narrow definitions are used, and usually only applicable to 'defining atheism as a religion.'
Atheists tend to start with 'prove it' and religionists tend to answer with "My Holy Book says it's true, and that's all the proof I need."... which is a pretty crappy 'proof' from any other viewpoint.
:)
I am constantly amazed at the number of people who are willing to fight to the death for their imaginary gods they heard about in a book or books written by people who thought the earth was flat and did not know where the sun went at night. Fortunately, Festinger explained the psychological issue in his 1954 book on cognitive dissonance. Love your little god, that is fine. Just don't initiate force against others who don't believe as do you. All too many Christians (and others of the Abrahamic faiths have).
I was just offering Googled references to indicate that both 'testaments' have similar content... :)
So, to answer your question, "of course not!"
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