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The Conflict Within - The Left's Version of Creationism

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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I've mentioned in other comments, a recent book I've been reading and studying by a favorite Astro-physicist, Hilton Ratcliffe, titled "Stephen Hawking Smoked My Socks." The primary emphasis of this book, that follows much of Ratcliffe's previous work has to do with the effect of belief systems on scientific inquiry and mathematical formulation of and nonsensical corrections/additions to theories to incorporate such beliefs into current scientific research and even experimental findings. In these writings, Ratcliffe is really talking about socially derived belief's-faith's impact on science today, as well as the fact that all humans grow up with sets of belief systems that those in science, in particular though not exclusively, must first recognize such belief systems' impacts and their influences on their and their predecessors' work, but then take the extremely difficult path of ensuring that such does not interfere with their actual and factual experimental and measured findings and work.

Now, I've recently encountered another source in the referenced blog (Gene Expression), that goes even further than Ratcliffe in describing this phenomena of human existence in scientific work by delving into the scientific squabble that's been going on since the 70's with those, sometimes termed neo-darwinists', that searched for and believe they've found support in their studies and work to support what they've termed sociobiology. A term developed to explain many studied characteristics of today's individual humans actions and responses whose predilections in society are derived from evolutionary genetic traits at neural and molecular levels combined with environmentally influenced expressions. The referenced article, though not easily read, describes those opposing sociobiology as driven by their own early Marxist and Stalinist indoctrination that wish to believe that humans are so malleable as to be controlled through progressive/socialist government and institutional policies and imposed moralities.

The article goes on to compare the opposing leftist, progressive influence to the rightist, conservative arguments on creationism:
"Rose, like his fellow travellers Gould and Lewontin, doesn't want his worldview, which has been extensively shaped by Marxist philosophy, to come crumbling down. The solutions proffered are state centered, gene-phobic, and premised on the extreme malleability of human nature. Further, like Diamond, he knows what sells and what his fans want to read and hear. He panders to the ideology, whether he truly believes in the Ghost in the Machine or not, and despite the warnings offered by Ehrenreich, McIntosh and Konner, the faithful of the Left lap up the ideologically reassuring pablum and turn a blind eye to the reality unfolding before them. The core of this faith is that human nature is malleable beyond limits that now exist, and like I've written before, along with my co-bloggers, it is that faith in the face of reason that binds one faction of the Left to their faith-based counterparts on the Right and like on the Right, the Left has its charlatans and hypocrites delivering these sermons." (emphasis added)

For Objectivist, these ideas and concepts will make a lot of sense. For those dedicated to the validity of their beliefs-faith, as the author says, in the face of reason, they will find much to argue with (if they even bother to read and follow some of the referenced material before commenting).


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I've been disappointed lately in the level of much posting and commentary on the site of recent days, and much of my posting lately is an attempt to restore to the site, a quality of Objective thought, posting, and commentary; as well as further the value of reason over faith/belief.


All Comments


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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Dr. Jim, we built a new engineering building on the tennessee campus,
    and put the central air conditioning machinery on the roof. . turned on,
    the air conditioning compressors set up a vibration which shook
    the entire building, threatening to tear it apart. . the compressors
    had to be changed out, for scroll compressors if memory serves,
    to remedy the problem. . HP modal analysis can preclude this. -- j
    .
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  • -3
    Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 9 months ago
    We have come to understand, (those of us that wish to simply get it right) that if one has something in mind to expect when searching, looking or learning will get what they expected to see. It's tough to just look to see what is there without any preconceived perceptions. I took Mark Hamilton's and Frank Wallace's concept of 'Wide Scope Accountability' with profound honesty and gave it a proper definition and a process to follow. See: The Fight for Conscious Human Life.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If this is truly your belief, I do not understand why you have any desire to be in the Gulch. You would be better off at CSC.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I remember seeing that as a kid. Somewhere in the back of my twisted mind I thought that would make the basis for a thrill ride.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The kindest way I can put this, I truly do not want to be offensive, is each of these arguments commits the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. And, yes, there are scientific answers to most, if not all, of the questions. But whether or not science now has an answer is not the issue. Are you saying you posit a god as the answer to all these questions?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As it happens, I am also allergic to down filled anything. I never would let that get in the way of a good metaphor..
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have learned that one of the easier ways to get students to appreciate resonance is to watch its effects on scanning tunneling microscopy and atomic force microscopy images. For STM and AFM images, the best images are at the highest possible P and I (proportional and integral) control gain settings without getting into resonance. It is a dangerous game, as the sample and the AFM cantilever are likely to break if you push the control too far.

    Overcontrolling is what causes resonance. This is a lesson statists would do well to learn, too. ;)
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It needs to be. My first encounter was four years after grad. and a month after picking up my MS. A combination of a super-fast electro-hydraulic servo valve, with a digital position sensor, and an 11/2" x 25' steel cable, on a free fall countering (WWII aircraft carrier elevator) hydraulic lifting cylinder, and I/O'd through a prototype micro-processor with selectable timing, position, velocity, and acceleration control. All to save several 35 yr old vertical annealing/heat treat furnaces for a/c aluminum. Almost brought the building down. Took me about 15 sec to realize and after 4 hrs getting it corrected, went home still red-faced and a few days away from restoring my self confidence. When you first see it in a several ton device, it's humbling.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
    I apologize to those that made excellent replies to Temlakos Creationism comments, but it was hi-jacking the post and I decided to hide him. Again, I read all of your replies before I hid his and most of them were excellent. Maybe someone should start a post for him to comment on.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good example, or the Tacoma Narrows bridge in WA. Still shown to every young engineering undergraduate, I hope.
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  • Posted by Watcher55 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Given how much research I have done on this topic, I can assure you that I have it exactly the right way. If you are a trained geneticist or paleontologist, or have at least read the primary literature rather than the tissue of lies creationist authors spew forth, then you might have something to say worth hearing.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is the wise approach, Z. When placed in context, it does add to the points of the post. I hope I have helped with my post on this below.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As a University trained geologist with two degrees I find this creation science website quite interesting.

    When I began my education in geology, the theory of plate tectonics was in full swing and was rapidly integrating the various sub-disciplines into a coherent picture of the history of the earth. It was bringing geophysics, geochemistry, stratigraphy, paleontology, geochronology and a host of study areas together. Since then I have stayed professionally active in the science and have watched for 40 years now how more...and more....and more....data keep coming together to support this understanding.

    It is amazing how detailed, complexly intertwined now, and how thoroughly these disciplines support the understanding that the earth is very old. Is it complete? Hardly. The level of knowledge will always increase and refine these understandings. But the fundamentals are there and it has been wonderful to have lived in this time.

    So, I find it interesting that some will still take all this amassed and integrated data and still try to massage it and square peg it into the circular hole of a cherished myth that the earth is not as old as all this data supports and therefore evolution of life forms over millions of years could not have occurred.

    Having said that, the age of the earth is a topic and evolution versus creation is a topic. This is where the politics of divisiveness comes in and plays a role. The argument is artificial and contrived to divide people. In my mind and conclusion, the understanding of the age of the earth and the long history of life on the planet - including humans - supports the understanding of evolution. However, this is the method of creation and is no less miraculous in its grandeur.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again, the point system fails to allow the positive point value your reply, or Esceptico's, deserves.

    However, "nonsense" doesn't begin to describe the mental vomit (the pieces of unprocessed thought) that constitutes the primitive drivel asserted by 'Temlakos' as 'valid'. How anyone that advocates 'young earth creationism' finds any commonality with Objectivism is beyond reason.

    http://www.conservativenewsandviews.c...
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  • -3
    Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I see you are a Producer. So am I.

    Are you an administrator?

    Do you not realize you are behaving exactly as do the Messrs. Thompson and Drs. Ferris of our modern age?
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  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago
    The point is: 5300 years ago, or as much as 100 years earlier or later, a violent event occurred that formed the strata, killed all the animals buried in them, and also formed the meteoroids, comets, asteroids, and trans-Neptunian objects. And the small and other irregular moons of Mars and all the gas giants. And that time frame comports easily with a certain body of writing that happens to contain a detailed history, including genealogical records, king lists, and event intervals.
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  • Comment hidden due to member score or comment score too low. View Comment
  • -1
    Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Then you have not looked at the evidence. Of course, it takes a lot longer than just an hour (or less) to read through a site like that.

    Take just one page in that book:

    http://creationscience.com/onlinebook...

    The page shows a synoptic table showing Brown's theory--specifically as regards the origins of comets--and every other theory out there. The left-most column lists all the evidence that demands an explanation.

    Do you deny any of the items listed in that row-header column?

    Can you suggests a formation mechanism for comets that comports with any theory out there, other than the Hydroplate Theory? Or any other theory to explain ice on the Moon and especially the planet Mercury?

    For that matter, can you explain why, though the earth has a number of companion asteroids, Venus has none, nor Mercury? Why do neither of those planets have satellites, but every planet beyond the Earth has satellites? I'm talking specifically about the irregular satellites, that are in fact captured asteroids.

    Can you explain that frozen carbon-monoxide lake in the western lobe of the Tombaugh Region (the Heart Shape) on Pluto? I can. It came from the burning, in a confined space, of uprooted trees, shrubs, and other vegetable matter carried into space with the rest of the material that formed the body we call Pluto today.

    Did you know that a narrow window, 200 years wide, exists in the past, during which all of the comets would most likely have been at perihelion, if you backtracked them? That window centers on 3290 BC. That suggests the comets, or the material that formed them, launched then.

    Why do the twelve largest TNO's, including Pluto, have identical arguments of perihelion? Why do all the TNO's fall into two clusters of argument-of-perihelion, 180 degrees apart?

    Then there is the formation mechanism for the solar system itself. Can you describe one? Can you describe how any object, let alone such a vast collection of them, can form from colliding dust clouds? Dust clouds don't collide! They would pass through one another. All the dust has to travel together before it can accrete.

    That should do for a starter.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I fail to find any reliance on the items you list in the theory or science of evolution, the age of the Earth, or anything else you're trying to proselytize about. -1
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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're not improving your position. I should flag and hide you for hi-jacking the post, but your creationist nonsense and your arguments only adds more proof to the points of the post. Belief in some overrides any attempt at reason.

    -1
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Show me the evidence. There is little, if anything, on CSC that would qualify as evidence. Use the Federal Rules of Evidence if you want a standard. They are not perfect, but will give some guidance as to what qualifies as credible evidence.

    I also think this (rather primary) discussion does not contribute to restoring the site to quality Objective thought.
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