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This is Why Even Innocence and Compliance is No Guarantee of Your Safety During a Police Stop

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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I was reading this while watching Schindler's List. The similarities and progressions were frightening.

"Handcuffed and Helpless
There’s a naive idea floating around that an innocent person should never be afraid of cops

What you are about to read is not a philosophical argument. It’s a personal testimony. The aim of telling this story is neither to make a political statement, nor to score points for a particular ideology. For almost three years, I’ve mostly held it in. But it’s become clear to me that it’s time to give a more detailed account to a broader audience."

And: "Without asking to see my license or registration, the officer on my side told me to get out of the car. I immediately and respectfully complied without raising a single question or objection. And in case you’re wondering, I wasn’t dressed in gang colors, nor was I wearing a hoodie.

When I exited the car, he turned me around, handcuffed me, threw me against the side of my car, and did a complete body search on me. As he groped me, he said, “This is how we do it in LA.”"

Then: "Imagine what goes on inside of a man’s head when he’s handcuffed and helpless as he watches two men with guns get in his wife’s face. Imagine the complex blend of confusion, fear, irrational optimism, and rage that festers inside one’s soul as he watches one cop take his wife’s purse and pour all the contents out, while the other officer literally crawls around inside our car for several minutes."

Finally: "As I slowly walked back to our car, I said to one of the officers, “Sir, I’m not trying to be antagonistic or disrespectful, but is there a reason for why I was pulled over?”

“We just had to check you out.”"

Is it time that we all asked questions or is it already too late? How compliant do you have to be to end up in a Police State?

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Note: Since the author is a philosopher, I've categorized this post such.


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  • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You're a very lucky guy. In today's atmosphere of obey me or else, the least you could have expected was 'interference with a police investigation' or 'refusal to obey lawful instruction' and you certainly wouldn't have been allowed 'I'm leaving.'
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  • Posted by vido 9 years, 9 months ago
    I had to go read the article linked at the end of your truncated citation in order to get the meaning of it : the guy was stopped for either "driving while black" or something else he did not mention (and being a "philosopher" has nothing to do with it). You should at least have included that part to help understanding the strange attitude of the cops.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    We all know that this police stop was wrong on so many levels that it is quite amazing. I have to ask -- is this a common occurrence? In my long and illustrious career, I have been stopped by police mostly for traffic infractions. In some cases I was treated more courteously than in others but never violated anywhere near the extent presented. The worse that happened was when a local cop who pulled me over was a bit brusque, he later kinda apologized saying that I failed to show him my insurance I.D. I pointed out to him that he never asked to see it, and he got a bit huffy.

    I'm always wondering in cases like this, how commonplace these kind of stops are. Is there a racial component? If it wasn't LA would a similar event occur in say, Boise, Idaho or Salt Lake City?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
    Sounds like a really good reason not to live in Kalifornia.
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  • -1
    Posted by AmericanGreatness 9 years, 9 months ago
    These stories about the police were pap in the beginning and have now endangered law abiding citizens as is evidenced by skyrocketing violent crime in major cities across the country.

    Are there a few bad apples among the hundreds of thousands in America? Or course, as there would be when examining any large group. But, they're the remarkable exception and not the norm.

    Ask the residents of Baltimore if they feel safer since the cops have been vilified.
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  • Posted by nicktheitguy 9 years, 9 months ago
    When I was 16, I had a run-in with the local PD. I'm white and grew up in a predominately white, well-to-do town that is a suburb of Chicago. I come from a blue collar family, and I had to work for what wanted, not what I needed. I spent many years, starting as a young kid, cutting lawns and blowing snow to earn pocket money. At 16, I got my drivers license and bought an old rust bucket Blazer from my uncle, and I worked at the local Osco.

    That night, I was driving home from being out with friends, and I cut through the Osco lot on my way home. I knew it was illegal to cut through a lot to avoid multiple lights, but it saved about five minutes of time, and I never had a problem. Three squads pulled me over as I exited the lot - two marked and one unmarked. All had their guns drawn. I was told to throw my keys out of the vehicle, exit the vehicle and lay on the ground spread eagle. One of the cops came up to me, put his foot on one of my wrists, held a gun to my head with one hand and emptied my pockets with the other hand. While doing this, he repeatedly asked me, "Did you steal this truck?". After the third time, I stated, "For the third and last time, No...run the plate against the registration and my license.". He picked me up and pushed me against the hood of his SUV, and put all my stuff on the hood, telling me to keep my hands on the hood. They ran the plates, reg, and my license and came up with nothing, but kept telling me they could cite me for reckless driving because I "was speeding through the lot". After about thirty minutes of back and forth, I started putting all my stuff back in my pockets. The one cop asked me what I was doing. I told him, "You have harassed me for a half hour now...either charge me with something, or I'm leaving." The cop handed me my license back and then said, "But we know where you live." I left without a citation, warning, or arrest.

    The cops in that town where known to harass teenagers and minorities. I was harassed that one time, but was present for at least three other times, when my friends were harassed. It really sets the stage for a person's respect for authority when cops do things like this to teenagers. As I got older, I realized that what I experienced was not the norm, but a few bad apples. That being said, I think cops should be held to a higher standard than regular folks. Yes, they are just regular folks, but they are taught to deescalate the situation, and try to avoid larger issues due to their attitudes (hopefully lack there-of). They should be reprimanded for stepping out of line, not high-fived, and the situations not ignored.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 9 months ago
    I guess I'm luckier than most, since even my scariest interaction with law enforcement turned out positive in the end. I was in Mississippi back in the '60s, and was pulled over by a highway patrolman. He did not get out of his car, but immediately pointed his 357 at the back of my head, and yelled "Git yo a** outa the cah!" I very slowly got out, keeping both hands in the air and away from my body, and my back to the officer. In the end, once he saw my military ID the situation improved, and he apologized, explaining a car like mine had been involved in an officer shooting.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have cameras in my car. Very cheap in today's world. No warning stickers. Act at your own risk of becoming a video star. Modern police, like the IRS, are not there to help you.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Why, they already have three Free Crime Zones in DC - the White House, the Congress and the Supreme Court. And the effluence just flows down the hill...
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  • Posted by hattrup 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    sad - but seemingly true. If I had the experience and concerns of the story author, I would have a couple video cameras mounted in all my owned vehicles, along with audio - perhaps with "under video/audio surveillance" warnings on the vehicle. And a smart phone for additional recording.
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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 9 months ago
    Is your "Police Stop" above a real story or just a scenario of a "what if"? Perhaps what has been happening (Ferguson, Baltimore) was needed in order to bring to light, but do we need to condemn all police in order to get the few that break the law. Is it not the same as condemning all of a particular race due to increased percentage of crime rate by that race? Many of these things get blown totally out of proportion because of injustices, ignorance, testosterone, and the likes.

    What are some real possible solutions to these issues? Would black cops policing black neighborhoods help provide a solution? I don't think standing down while rioters destroy other peoples property is the way to go either. How about designating certain areas of the country, or specific city limits as a "Free Crime Zone", and/or "Police Free Zone", areas where people can exercise their need to commit crimes. Certain parts of Detroit might be a good area to test such an idea. How about a "Free Kill Zone"? Actually something like that might work to secure our southern border, a strip between two single rail fences about a mile wide. Label it a "Free Kill Zone", and perhaps even set up booths to rent guns and buy ammo. The government wouldn't have to secure the border and could perhaps even make some money selling "Border Killing Permits". I'm sure it would eventually stop most of the illegal immigration.

    I'm not necessarily proposing any of these ideas specifically, just bringing them to your attention. We've got to start thinking and acting out of the box, so to speak, before all the nut jobs rule this country, or is it too late?
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  • -3
    Posted by $ Radio_Randy 9 years, 9 months ago
    This story could just as well have been an alien abduction, for its nearly total lack of proof.

    I'm not saying the police are innocent, but I could hardly form any kind of personal opinion, based on this account, alone. Remember...Brian Williams was shot down by an RPG...oops!
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 9 months ago
    Books like “militarization of police,” the Cato Institute having an entire website devoted to abuse by police, and shows like Stossel are bringing this to the forefront. As in any police state, when the police become the army, they need an enemy, and the enemy is the citizenry. "To serve and protect" has become “To harass and arrest.” Your best protection is to realize you are not living in the country you thought you lived in, and have a video camera running.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 9 months ago
    In all my 50+ years of existence, I recall only one occasion when an interaction with a cop was positive - he once helped me change a flat tire. ALL other occasions have been negative or very negative, with only a rare exception being neutral. And to add insult to injury, I am being forced to pay for the abuse!
    Eventually, as the country is sliding towards a civil war, this attitude will not be of service to the uniformed thugs.
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  • 15
    Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
    Giving police sovereign immunity is a big part of the problem ( http://www.restrepolaw.net/restrepola... ).

    This idea is completely in conflict with a free country. Police should not be shielded by the law, they should have more responsibilities under the law because they are the only ones allowed to use force legally.
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  • Posted by vollenweider 9 years, 9 months ago
    I praise you for keeping your cool and your open minded and eloquent description. I am not sure I would have done the same. Your wrote a wonderful and insightful article. I gives all of us pause to think. With your attitude and response to all of life's challenges, it gives me hope that we can move forward to a better country for all. thank you.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Unfortunately this is yet another good opportunity for my favorite Floyd Ferris quote:
    "We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them...you create a nation of lawbreakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden."
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
    This problem of police operating on the edge of or outside the law is huge. It undermines respect for the law, undermining the fragile concept of republic based on law.
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