I must say this...

Posted by $ WillH 11 years, 2 months ago to The Gulch: General
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I understand Ayn Rand's points about mystics, and I agree with a large part of it, but being a religious person does not by default mean that you are the problem. Not everyone who is religious subscribes to the philosophy of the mystic looter.

The simple truth is it has turned out to be the progressives that are killing our society with their self destructive philosophy of sacrifice of self to their idea of the public greater good.

One day the Moochers and Looters will fall. It is inevitable that their policies will result in their own destruction because they are not sustainable. They rely on having something to mooch and something to loot. Eventually they will run out of both.

Once the moochers and looters are removed from their high places of power and our nation has returned to the ideals of self reliance, production, and personal liberty that made it so great we will have all the time we want to debate each other on the existence and merits of god. Right now we have a lot better things to do than to climb all over each other about who does and does not believe in the divine.

We, the men and women of the mind, are at war right now with a very clear and present danger to our way of life. The penalty for losing this war is the subjugation of our lives and production to the federal government. I am not saying that there should not be any debate on the site, that's part of the fun. I am concerned that we are coming to a point where these debates are becoming a dividing force at a time we need to be strongest.

Look around yourself. The American people voted Barack Hussein Obama II president only a few years after 9/11. Our government and public have begun to embrace the very people and religion that perpetrated that attack. The federal government is spying on Americans, militarizing the police, making us a laughing stock of policy failure around the world, and threatening to take away our very right to self defense while the Supreme Court has ruled that police are not required to protect anyone. China is launching aircraft carriers and building stealth fighters.

Do we really need to be insulting and disrespecting each other about who is and is not religions? Do we not have bigger fish to fry? .


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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 2 months ago
    I hate when the gulch turns into a bible study. This is not a religion based website. This was set up to promote Atlas Shrugged, the work of Ayn Rand, based on her philosophy that man owns himself and he is his own highest power. Lately, it seems, every post ends up either getting hijacked by religious debate, or a debate about gay marriage and transexuals. Personally I don't care what a person believes about either topic I just don't understand why any of needs to be debated in HERE. Meandering on a post is unavoidable...taking one over is just rude. If you feel the need to debate these topics then start your own post titled as such so those of who want to avoid it can do so instead of having to weed through comments trying to find ones related to the actual title of a post.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I disagree with Peikoff. The progressives in this country have systematically undermined Christianity in the schools and public places. They have attempted to vilify the Tea Party with false claims of "rabid" religious zealot talk and generally in their nihilism destroyed much in the name of state over religion, not state separate from religion. I have heard so many Objectivists declare they voted for Kerry or Obama to escape the fears of a religious right. So much poppycock. Most US Christians embrace capitalism, limited government, and strong property rights. But if you're Objectivist trying to enjoy a site devoted to Atlas Shrugged and Rand's ideas, it can get annoying defending yourself against religious doctrine.
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  • Posted by JIsaiahHatfield 11 years, 2 months ago
    I agree with your stance, WillH. The personal belief in a deity is not a pertinent argument in our current political/economic climate, provided those personal beliefs do not spill over into Progressive (i.e. oppressive) policies.
    No one would be in favor of silencing debate, which you correctly point out is part of the fun, but how is it Libertarian or even Objectivist to belittle a personal belief?
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  • Posted by jrberts5 11 years, 2 months ago
    We do NOT have bigger fish to fry. Ayn Rand stated that skepticism and mysticism are "two sides of the same fraudulent coin: the attempt to escape the responsibility of rational cognition and the absolutism of reality" (Introduction of Objectivist Epistemology). The presence and continuation of those you speak against in politics is made possible by the Christian ethic of "I am my brothers keeper." If you truly wish to oppose them then abandon your irrational ideas and get new ones. I actually think that is one of the reasons that Christians are trying to hijack Objectivist ideas. They know they have no moral basis on their own to oppose what's going on. Either that or it is nihilism--the desire to destroy good ideas by slipping bad ones in the mix thereby undermining the validity of the good ones. Leonard Peikoff made a logical argument in his book The Dim Hypothesis that the most likely result of current intellectual, cultural, and political movement in this country is a "religious," totalitarian dictatorship with Christianity as the current frontrunner for center stage in it. If you are religious, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.
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