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Jailed Clerk Kim Davis Just Presented A 'Remedy' That Could Fix The Situation For Everyone

Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 7 months ago to Culture
285 comments | Share | Flag

Judge Bunning in ordering the imprisonment of Davis stated that: “The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order.” He further explained that the clerk’s good-faith belief is “simply not a viable defense,” dismissing her appeal to God’s moral law and freedom of conscience. “The idea of natural law superseding this court’s authority would be a dangerous precedent indeed,” he said.  


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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Let's analyze your statement. Remove your inflammatory adjectives and what remains is your assertion that the law must be followed in all circumstances. That happens to have been the Nazi defense at the trial. As it happens, I do not share her religious beliefs, but I do respect them.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As a devout Objectivist, I am certainly not sneering at Objectivism. That also includes recognizing and respecting the rights of others, even if those are based on religion.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am not promoting religion. I am promoting a person's right to not being forced to action against their moral code, regardless whether that code originated from Objectivism or the Bible. I am also pointing out that when such conflicts occur, the stronger jailing the weaker is a recipe for a disaster.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    People are married all the time with nothing but a fee to the person who officiates, provides the certificate, and registers the legal status. What is wrong with that?
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That's not why I rationally sent her a card.
    It had to do with a freedom supposedly guaranteed by the First Amendment.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    She could have. She is already in jail now for contempt of the court order while remaining in office. Whether or not she could get out by resigning now is a legal question.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, they are, and Kim Davis is one example of it. Religious beliefs are in this case being promoted as an excuse.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Ayn Rand forum" does not mean Ayn Rand is still alive or that only Ayn Rand can be talked about. The purpose and terms of conditions for this forum on behalf of Ayn Rand's philosophy have been clearly stated and exclude promoting positions attacking Ayn Rand's philosophy, though the wording of the rules keeps changing. It is not a forum for proselytizing religious conservatism.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There! Now you're gettin' the hang of it!

    The gov should get out of the business of personal relationships, making babies (or not), healthcare in general...as a matter of fact...it's better if they get out of everything (to paraphrase Gandalf). OK - they can keep national defense and a few other things.

    Jan, feeling generous
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Jailing someone for violation of the law is not a "path in that direction". It is done all the time. It has nothing to do with "Nazi excuses". She has no right to redefine the laws she must follow in her duties as a public official. Her subjective claims to religious morality are irrelevant. If she prefers her irrational religious duties her alternative is to resign. No one is forcing her to keep the job she volunteered for. It has nothing to do with "Nazi atrocities". That is your arbitrary and false association.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The "codification" is the Supreme Court decision stating that she cannot discriminate against gays in issuing marriage licenses. Her discrimination in the function of her duties is the illegality. The demands to be shown a state law are sophistry.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Freedom of conscience" does not mean public officials making up their own laws. If they disagree with laws they are required to enforce then they should resign. There is no exemption for religious faith as a privileged position.
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  • Posted by robertmbeard 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, humor and sarcasm don't always translate well over text postings. That sometimes annoys people's emotions...

    Of all the "slippery slope" arguments, the case against polygamy is, by far, the weakest. How can we deny love among more than 2 adults?

    Again, my answer is that it's none of the government's business what happens in the bedroom, bathroom, or weedroom. There should be no "licenses" or tax-favored treatment to anyone here. Contracts can be entered into and later disputes resolved by the courts, but that's really where it should end.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This has nothing to do with the demands of religionists to make their own law as public officials.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't see this as an "Ayn Rand forum." I personally do not come here to talk exclusively about Ayn Rand. Ayn Rand is dead. She's not coming back. But her writings on philosophy survive which can be applied or debated in living one,s life.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Objectivism is not an equivalent variety of "the Spaghetti Monster", "Global Warming", and "religion", and "religious beliefs" are not "just as valid" as anything else. Your sneering attacks on Ayn Rand's philosophy do not belong here.

    "Everyone" does not have a "moral right" to change the law to whatever he wants as a public official with contrary "religious beliefs". Anarchy by public officials is statism. Nor is a civilized society possible based on an anti-philosophical libertarian anything goes notion of subjective eclectic "moral codes".

    The Supreme Court is not "invalidating a nuclear family by destroying the marriage by spreading it out among anything that walks". Your assertion is absurd. That some hysterical religionists have a "moral conflict" with public officials being required to follow the law for marriage licenses contrary to religious dogma is not "the seeds of revolution".
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A law creating exceptions for "Natural Law" would create chaos, because there are as many versions of "Natural Law" as religions. No system of law, however objectively fair, is really "natural" at all -- man had to invent it, and will probably improve on it in the future.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry to be so humorless. Actually the argument that recognizing that denial of gay marriage was a constitutional violation might logically lead to other absurd results was made to the Supremes (and every other court which decided the issue). This is known in the law as a "slippery slope" argument. It was rejected. Raising this argument, even in a humorous manner, sometimes has the opposite of the intended effect. Note Johnconnor's response above.
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