If you were to start with a new generation, say from kindergarten, then that might work. In this case, you have 33 million people, most of whom have no concept of work, entrepreneurship or liberty. They are slaves. You do not liberate slaves in a day and expect them to become citizens. Bush has already tried that in Iraq, among many other attempts, with the same futility. In a failed state like Venezuela, a few will be glad for the change, some will adapt adequately enough, and perhaps 10 million or more will just sit on the street and either die or join a "liberation" army. And there'll be plenty of outside powers funding the "liberation," as it will be a threat to the socialist world.

Eliminating? No. Liberating, and putting to work. Reverse process of the communist manifesto.
Remove present government (nasty and hard). Set up oligarchy. Set up businesses to employ people and make money (should be very easy to pay better than they have now). Set up temporary minimalist welfare for people not wanting to work for a business, where basic food and minimal pay is offered in return for government labor. Provide obvious benefit of working for business.
on and on.

In my opinion, if there is any hope of a realistic Atlantis in our lifetime, it would have to be either purchased from a failed state or built in some unwanted location. In any case, it would have to be organized and "incorporated" as an independent country, with its own constirution and defense. The best option to making it happen is an involvement by liberty-minded billionaire.

What I find strange in the earlier discussions here is the desire for total self-sufficiency. Why? No country of earth is self-sufficient. Nor is there a need for it. You produce what you're good at producing, sell it and buy what you're not good at producing. Instead of hidding behind the flat part of the Earth, be accessible, have trade, have communications and have a military capable of defending it all. An environment with liberal constitution, minimal government and capitalist values should be sifficient to bring in outside business, grow your own and retain it.

Actually, thanks to New Zealand one entrepreneur that the US media nazis wanted to crush, one Kim Dotcom, was protected from US prosecutors who had no grounds to prosecute. He is still in business and still has all his NZ property afaik.
NZ does have its Nazis, too, but they are trivial compared to the US version. I didn't like the NZ firearms laws particularly since they would make resistance by the people very difficult in an emergency. Perhaps, all the residents of Atlantis would have to be deputized and required to be armed by their elected sherrif.
Wherever Atlantis goes there will be challenges. I'd rather spend resources on getting liberty than wasting them on reinventing the wheel from scratch in a wilderness with no infrastructure (and no sovereignty from the local govt. No local govt is going to give sovereignty without significant incentives.) NZ has been much more negotiable with the native minority which may leave another option that doesn't exist elsewhere. However, I have no irrational attraction to NZ either.

I did some research on NZ after I made this comment. I agree with you 100%. If I wanted to surrender my 2nd Amendment rights and my pride as a producer, I would vote for Hillary. I'll pass on NZ.

How are you planning on eliminating 10 million people that have no concept of work, no education and are expecting a government handout?

Two fundamental differences: 1) Billionaire. 2) For the Muslims. Europe is bending backwards (literally) to please the Muslims. We, on the other hand, will be considered a threat. Besides, he didn't ask for sovereignty. No need, due to point 2).

The firearms laws in NZ in one sentence: the government has them; the citizens don't.

NZ is a eco-crazy socialist state. How can anyone in their right mind can even consider investing anything there? It will be duly taken away. If you are going to live in a socialist state, you do not invest there; you plunder, pilage and re-direct to your advantage, as much as you can get away with. Honest investment simply feeds those that follow the formula above.

Hi SantomR- Just about every angle has been cussed and discussed on this subject. From whether it should be a remote island; a near island; degree of interaction with outside; whether agricultural based, tech connected or industrially based; energy sources; how big it should be; even the form of government and any restrictions on immigration. Best bet is to read the thread(s), print them if you have to, and see
if the concept interests you.

I think the idea of an island is rather unrealistic and isolationist. There are many problems associated with maintaining a community in such an environment. Is Atlantis going to be 100% self sustaining? Will the residents be totally independent from the world's banking and finance system and more importantly will they have to rely at all on the world's market place for any goods and services, if so which ones? Having spent 30 years in the submarine force we were able to have nearly and endless source of power (nuclear), and we could make our own water (from seawater) and air (Oxygen Generator). However our ability to remain at sea was limited on how much food we could carry. Additionally our submarine was staffed with a corpsman that could handle minor medical issues but nothing very serious.

Don't know until I get some more data from a couple of sources I'm pinging. I will probably route them through philosophercat as he has a great deal of experience dealing with this type of project. As soon as I know, I will post up here.

What's the price per buildable area of these two places? I looked into this a year ago, and found even in remote locations it runs in the $10,000 per buildable acre range. That kind of money would be enough to fix up some hotels in a remote location and turn them into a conference center / business incubator / resort / retirement home. I have no idea how to execute that. And getting tax abatement deals in exchange for building it would be another project I don't know how to execute. I'm inspired by the idea though.

The hardest thing, though, is that the human foibles Ayn Rand describes follow you. Peter Keating won't just move there; he'll be on the board of org that builds it. I always thought of that as a problem people would deal with down the road. No. He's there from the very beginning.

Nice post. Agree we need a sizable property. With money anything is possible, though some issues such as power generation are easier handled than some think.

very good idea. either way I am sure we can both succeed.

There's a runway!!! So off course you would need an aircraft mechanic!!!!

Okay, the e-mail is sent. May be a couple of days before get reply. And the size is approx 8,000 ac.?

A hectare is 10,000 sq meters, which is about 108,000 sq ft, and an acre is 43,560sf.

See, freedomforall had the answer and I didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...

Thanks for that. I was going bassackwards then. So all my calculations went for naught. Oh, poor, poor pitiful me. Glad we have you here. Now you know why I try to stick to mostly editorial stuff.

Or we can cooperate and make more stuff.

about 2.5 acres per hectare
360 ha = about 900 acres

Both properties look great. I am curious to know NZ's firearms laws are.

Found it. POA is 'Price On Asking' I take it? Let's see, all told, about 3200 ac. Need to find out the price.
Here's a satellite pic of the island:
www.google.com/maps/place/Chatham+Isl....

Guess I'll send an e-mail to see what's what.

Great, then we can compete for business from our fellow Gulchites