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The best thing we could do is leave em alone and quit giving them weapons.
In this way I could support Bush and Afghanistan and Iraq. He, his people, and the rest of the world, believed Saddam had WMDs (and they were found) and GWB acted on it. As President you can only go on the best information available. When out troops were already on the ground in Afghanistan and the threat of tactical WMDs became real from neighboring Iraq (SKUDS), action was required. I do not fault him for acting, implementing is another matter.
At this point of the new islamic invasion of the West. "Leaving them alone" is not part of the solution, its suicidal.
My 2 bits.
@Johnpe : No. We have a muslim or a muslim sympathizer in the White House who is hell bent on tearing down this nation. I do not believe he was ever American.
Just because I believe one does not harm me until he strikes my nose, does not mean I am going to just stand there while he takes a swing.
you are a fool if you think that these people can be kept
out of our homeland by sitting and waiting. . they are
on the way here, and france is but a stepping stone.
yes, they have attacked the continental u.s. -- not just
the world trade center twice, but also boston and Fort Hood
and a recruiting center or two -- they are here and sneaking up
on your butt right now, sir. . mark my words. -- j
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I can still remember a time and a lot of personal experiences 'fighting to defend democracy and the American way' in a place half way around the world and the scaremongers during that time that warned what would happen to the US if we just let them solve their own problems. .
I often wonder how much of all this Islamic fear and hate since 9/11, is religious driven phobia vs. any actual real danger. The US police (Christians, all of them) are real close to 1,200 to 1,300 killed so far this year, which by the numbers I've seen mean they've shot another 2,500 to 4,000 and shot at and missed many more than that, while their deaths continue the historic decline of the last 30 years, they just murdered a 5 or 6 yr old boy with 6 shots to his body and head and wounded another child with a flash/bang, and the number of witnessed and videoed beatings is at an all time high. We no longer have a 4th Amendment protection, and our 5th and 6th protections are a joke, let alone the attacks on the 1st and 2nd, and the 10th is totally ignored. The government has been caught out in so many atrocious lies that it makes one wonder if it's even possible to dream of an honest open government any more. I'm a veteran that still needs the VA to continue my life from the damage incurred some 46 yrs ago, and it very much appears that is threatened now.
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to be aware of and even nervous about in this life, but I guarantee you, it's not from some uneducated religious fanatic from halfway around the world anymore than it was a little, rice fed Vietnamese kid. There's some 325,000,000 people in this country with somewhere around 150,000,000 registered guns and probably 300,000,000 unregistered guns. I seriously question your commitment, if any, to liberty and freedom and the rights of the individual, if you really buy off on all the nonsense the media and our 'honest, trustworthy' government officials spout. There are enough real, visible things going on right next door to you and me and on our streets to be worried about and really scared of. When that right fist is waiving around in the air in front of your face, grab your pockets because that left hand is up to something.
including errant cops and neighborhood bullies, druggies
and religious zealots. . guarding against all requires the
vigilance of a gargoyle and the determination of an Edison.
I too am a veteran, and thank You for your service.
let's watch both of the hands, together! -- j
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We're just cattle.
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Kinda like John Lennon's song, "Imagine."
But it's such a nice song, that anthem of the delusional left.
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ISIS can't do anything to America unless the fedgov lets them.
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Ahhh well you may you live in interesting insane times. That administration was always big on gun running so it's no surprise.
The Washington elites? No.
Most Democrats? No
Joe Lunchbucket? Yes
Most Republicans? Yes
Most Gulchers? Yes
Most old fogies? Yes.
I didn't take a survey, or a poll. Just based on emails and conversations that are completely unscientific. If ISIS and its brethren are not soundly defeated be prepared for the start of the next Dark Ages for our grandchildren and their children.
I only want the pure evil that ISIS wiped clean from the face of the earth.
See a lunatic wearing black? Kill it.
I say "it" because I no longer consider one of those murdering, raping and torturing laughing savages to be human beings.
Go medieval all over medieval.
I read that the Navy got rid of their napalm stockpiles but I don't know about the other branches.
O'Prissy Sisisy would likely think napalm is not politically correct but Trump or Carson may think otherwise.
is like severing an arm during a fight. . absolutely stupid. -- j
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Another example of this is grounding the Blackbird. UAVs take up some of the slack but don't have the same capability. (If Darth Vader had to pick something to fly from current tech, that would be it. It just looks right for that)
ISIS is the worst role model possible.
It's also very true, though.
marines the red-splotched map of Iraq and Syria, marked that way
to indicate the areas controlled by ISIS, and I would say, "Take 'em out.
The entire red-marked area. . No prisoners." -- j
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So many choices so little information...so little time.
Or maybe we who now stand on the sidelines watching those who committed. us to do battle in the past and then turned against those of us you sent to those areas. Those of us committed now or in the past who look back to our own country and say "you got what you voted for what you asked for? Deal with it. Live with it or - die with it. The chickens are returning home ready to roost - in your neighborhood? You are now standing on the front lines. It's what you asked for - is it not?" Watch that flock scatter squawking as they run." No where to run the consequences of your actions are 'here.'
I think pop some corn top off the beverage of choice and watch the extended version of National Charade presents street theater at it's most ludicrous.
Good post!!!
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All we have to do is be ourselves: lead by example in pluralism, stand ready to protect ourselves with personal arms if needed, do the things we love in live, which indirectly leads to prosperity that everyone wants. The other side (e.g. Limbaugh, ISIS) wants self-sacrifice, medevialism, and war.
breaking things -- next. . if we can't get to the state of mind,
we cannot win the war. . they started it, just as the rapist
on campus did, and they must be stopped before
they rape your sister. . or mother. -- j
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The second kind is a national will no longer found in the USA - a hard belief in the superiority of the Constitution and the democratically and freely elected representative form of government The Republic and this kind came about because of the collective use of individual reason. We don't have the second any more We do have the every four years natinal charade but then we don't have freely and democratically elected open elections anymore where the vote does count. Just momentary mass hysteria. pitting one branch of socialism against another no matter they are interchangeable mass manufactured parts. themselves of little moment.
The kind we are missing is the Will To Win after years of a lack of national leadership and a lack of faith or reason in the offerings of the party system neither it's left wing nor it's right wing.
One can watch the closing of a convention and easily, mentally,transpose the figures of those early Eisenstein and Reifenstahl movies over Democrats and Republicans alike.
What is left is not conviction of reason nor triumph of will just emptiness and the true heroes are those sweeping up the leavings in a cold, dark, empty auditorium. The only honest part of these conventions. Sweeping up the leavings.
Something like the feeling in a stomach that has just vomited an excess of rubber chicken dinners.
A re-enactment of a long series of meaningless conventions and even more meaningless leaders.
Not the State of Mind needed to successfully prosecute a war, a football game or a debate.
Just Carville and and Lakoff grinning from the the wings Boehner and Reid driving silently back to the chambers of congress and dissolve to a cartoon of that picture ....the caption. P.T Barnum is alive and well we fooled them one more time.
The auditorium now almost cleaned holds the odor of hopelessness - that is your state of mind. One More War. One more step in a dark tunnel which will never show a light much less an end. The state of mind is 'emptiness.' The troops in Vietnam had the proper frame of mind as they geared up mentally 'Don't mean nothing. Don't mean a thing. It's just a thing.'
Our legacy to the nation with the contempt we felt for the nation...and that is your state of mind today as it searches for non-existence. It's the Triumph of Despair. Hard to ruck up and win wars whose outcome 'don't mean a thing.'
Thank You, Charles;;; I really do like that. . we might be able
to examine this further if you would explain the crime(s). -- john
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as fast as possible, by preventing the next death -- and the way
that it's done is a constant grotesque invention::: doing the bad
to prevent the bad. . stop them through wielding weapons better
than they do. . since, apparently, deterrence does not work.
I do not think that this is a battle of religions. . it's a battle of
techniques. . they -- like the progressives, by the way -- think
that the ends justify the means. . we think that the ends
are the means. . hand out freedom like the most glorious
party favor, here in this grand earth fiesta, and hope that
its value is appreciated enough to quell the violence.
it should be simple, don't you think? -- j
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People like liberty, and people commit violent crimes, sometimes atrocious ones. I don't claim to have a plan to stop that. Violence in the world is way down in recent centuries (despite the world wars) compared to human history, but we obviously have a long way to go.
I think we have to ask ourselves what we are willing to do to maintain the cause of freedom and our rights to choose our own paths in life.
You mean my solution to violent extremism? It's been with us forever, so I'm unlikely to have a plan to stop it for good. The liberty-loving people of the world need to stay armed, protect frameworks like the US Constitution, and maintain a criminal justice system to catch the bad guys.
Note: because every word of the Qur'an is regarded by the faithful as the direct, unassailable word of Allah, this will never likely happen. Just questioning the holy books earns a death sentence.
This supposes that the causal vectors flow clearly from religion to modernity. The church didn't bring modernity to Europe. Christianity and Judaism has many fewer people who believe in killing people for questioning holy books, but I don't think that's because Christian authorities do a good job of quelling extremism.
It was in 1529, some 12 years after Luther had nailed his Theses to the church door, that the word “Protestant” became a popular term describing those who supported Luther’s protests against the Church. These opponents of the Church declared their allegiance to God and protested any loyalty or commitments to the emperor. Thereafter, the name “Protestant” was applied to all who argued that the Church be reformed. Luther died in 1546 with his revolutionary Theses forming the foundation for what is known today as the Protestant Reformation." In stating the lineage of authority was man to God vs men to God through church and Emperor?"
Islam's was man to god thoruogh direct descendent of Mohammand vs. self appointed clergy - much the same.
Bahai goes several steps further and defends not only it's church but the other breakaway churches stating the lineage is Man to God by the most direct route.and does not forbid nor any of the nine major monthestic religions.
"*The foundation of all the divine religions is one. All are based upon reality. Reality does not admit plurality, yet amongst mankind there have arisen differences concerning the manifestations of God. Some have been Zoroastrians, some are Buddhists, some Jews, Christians, Mohammedans and so on. This has become a source of divergence whereas the teachings of the holy souls who founded the divine religions are one in essence and reality All these have served the world of humanity.... All have guided souls to the attainment of perfections, but among the nations certain imitations of ancestral forms of worship have arisen. These imitations are not the foundation and essence of the divine religions. Inasmuch as they differ from the reality and the essential teachings of the Manifestations of God, dissensions have arisen and prejudice has developed. Religious prejudice thus becomes the cause of warfare and battle. If we abandon these time-worn imitations and investigate reality all of us will be unified. No discord will remain; antagonism will disappear. All will associate in fellowship."
Bahai's often thought to be the most peaceful did preach against any church trying to hold superiority over another calling for the nations of the world to rise up and destroy such a church, but otherwise live in peace - referring to Islam as Mohammedans a clear indication of the direct route.
When adding the 80 breakaway sects of Islam it appears they had indeed their own 95 theses over direct lineage. Thus a reformation and ended up the same as the Chritstian Church, add those breakaways, well over a 100 it appears each had their own reformation.....
I'm not theologian but it works for me...The vertical path of power is from whatever each group sees as the divine authority or source of power through man to such entities as man may authorize including churches and governments. i see secular progressives as equal to the breakaway Muslims in the Shia Sunni struggle. and just as much enemy as islamics no doubt view their own allegiences.
My understanding of the Shia/Sunni dispute is that it was over which of Mohammed's sons retained the right of leadership of Islam as a whole - and more particularly the military leadership. Part of Islam's doctrine is that only Mohammed is/was allowed to declare God's word. The current clerics are allowed to interpret applicability over certain things (fatwas), but no new doctrine may be added. (It is of note to see the advancement of theology in the Qu'ran, which is organized by surrahs which are largely chronological. The tendency toward militancy and conquest is heavily tilted toward the latter sections.)
I differentiate because there had already been a schism in Christianity when the original Church fractured into the Egyptian Coptic, the Eastern Orthodox (both Greek and Russian deriving from that body) and the Roman Catholic churches - largely based on geographical separation. The Protestant Reformation (as you correctly pointed out) started with Luther, but was hardly unique to him. With the advent of the Gutenberg press and its resulting Gutenberg Bible (thanks to Tinsdale's translation into English), there were many (Luther, Wesley, Rogers among others) who began to point out doctrinal errors which had crept in to the practice of the Catholic Church. They then derived that if such doctrinal errors existed and had not been corrected as seen by plentiful example in the New Testament epistles, that it could only be the result of willful apostasy (foretold by Paul) which itself would indicate loss of authority. What should be noted about Luther was that he did not start the Lutheran - or any other Protestant - church. He did not feel he had the authority to do so.
The Catholic Church still claims right of authority back to Peter and with it the right to speak in the name of God and "create" new doctrine. Thus pronouncements by the Holy See are regarded by Catholics as the "will of God", but largely ignored by all other Christian faiths as the non-authoritative rantings of a usurper. By comparison, the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches are run by priests called Bishops and headed by an Archbishop, but their claim to authority does not go back to Peter, but to the individual Bishops who were called to preside over the original seven churches in Asia (modern day west coast of Turkey). The Copts have been so decimated by Islam that they barely exist as a formal religious sect anymore, and are largely regarded as just another of the many sects despite their origins. The Protestants are notable in that they reject the claim of authority professed by the Catholic Church - including the right to proclaim doctrine - but have little claim to an alternative line of authority.
lol. nice.
I reject the premise that violent extremism is causally tied to religion. I know it's correlated and Islam has far more extremists, but I don't think it's causal. So 1.6 billion people is not the issue, and even if we could change billions of people, it wouldn't necessarily work.
BTW, I did not downvote your comment.
This is a common theme among most religions. In the modern world, though, most people say the religion informs us about our ancestors and they do not take it literally. I reject arguments that go "but religion X is evil b/c it calls for stoning adulterers, religious wars, raping prisoners of war, etc. We must fix religion X."
Violent extremism been with us forever, and as a broad trend it's decreasing.
I do not know why we see a surge of it now and why more than a handful of people even tolerate ISIS. I think it has to do with people feeling caught between two worlds. This could be a family that moves. The parents keep connections with other people from their culture. The kids can't quite be accepted into the new culture, and then an extremist comes along and says "your parents don't understand you, and the new culture will never accept you. I have a way to be a part of something pure and righteous." It also happens when as Thomas Friedman describes it, people feel like the Lexus is squeezing out their Olive Tree in their own country.
My explanation does not account for everything that's happening. I think there's more going on.
"Most" is a pretty broad term. Please name one other than Islam for which violence is an explicit tenet. There is a huge difference in my mind between what one does in the name of religion in spite of the express tenets of such, and what one does with the full endorsement of religious tenets.
"I reject arguments that go "but religion X is evil b/c it calls for stoning adulterers, religious wars, raping prisoners of war, etc. We must fix religion X."
I just reject the religion itself as being founded upon incorrect (or in the case of Islam - downright evil) principles. Just like one would reject socialism for its artificial "equality", communism for its elite ruling class and repression of theoretically "equal" populace, etc. There are plenty of competing ideologies. I'm not going to waste my time trying to change one I don't agree with. It's much easier to go find another option.
You must be kidding. Most of them endorse the hard core brutal violence. I think the trick is to find one that does not endorse violence. Maybe Buddhism/Taoism/Confucianism.
"I just reject the religion itself as being founded upon incorrect (or in the case of Islam - downright evil) principles."
I reject religion too. I accept that religion calls for those evil things. I reject the idea that we must change people's religion to get them to stop the evil.
The answer is America: A place and an idea where you're completely free to gather and read books about rape, hearing voices telling you to kill your kids, etc, but if you actually hear voices and then try to act any of that out in the modern world, we have citizens and police ready to stop you because it's against the law.
Again - that is a gross generalization and fallacy of inclusion. If "most" religions endorse such as you say, please be specific and cite sources of doctrine. To my knowledge, only one religion endorses the use of violence explicitly as doctrine. All others eschew or outright prohibit it except in self-defense. That is not to say that some adherents have disregarded their religion and committed atrocities, but if they do this contrary to the doctrine, are they truly representatives of their respective faith, or merely apostates and pretenders?
I agree with you that America is a singular and unique place.
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about 120 feet long or so, and it does 40 well -- through
a heathkit sa2500 tuner. . should be good from here to there. -- j
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like the existing one, or grounded? -- j
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Best thing google 292 Field Expedient Antenna and Field Expedient Antenna Formula. for cutting wire to frequency. This allows for the knot in the end of the wire so it can be suspended from the trees or whatever. FM 23-10 chap 7 if memory serves.
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The biggest problem I see in America today is that we don't have a clue what we stand for any more. This group stands for "Black Lives Matter". This group is all about Environmental Protectionism. This group just wants more welfare handouts. And our government leaders encourage these divisions.
The second problem I see is that our current leadership outright refuses to identify the problem at all. Worse, they attempt to apologize for it.
You can not wage war unless you are willing to identify the enemy, and you can not wage effective war unless you are willing to identify the fronts on which it must be fought, because from them you devise your battle plans. And as we saw from Vietnam, we must be united as a nation in the ideals behind the war or our own internal divisions will work against our will to prosecute the war to completion.
The the US gets rid of Saddam Hussein, and Iraq falls apart and winds up being run by a US-installed Shiite. The Sunnis go ballistic and when they get the chance, they reform into ISIS and pledge never to be run again by Shiites.
Now the USA wants to fight ISIS (the Sunni group). They have learned how to battle successfully the invaders, so the fight is on.
Its a regional religious war, and neither side is going to give in. We cant defeat either side without killing all the people on that side. We should let them fight it out themselves and keep our noses out of it. Then there is little reason for ISIS to fight the USA with terrorism.
A false dichotomy is afoot. The notion that Islam is only composed of “Radical” extremists and the other Muslims are simply peaceful is actually a two prong effort to instill Sharia law by two methods of infiltration. First ,the one that gets the most attention is the bloody acts of killing and maiming witnessed most recently by the attacks in Paris. Here the suicidal fanatics demonstrate to the innocents and the muslim population at large how dedicated and ruthless they can be. Willing to blow themselves up to instill terror in the hearts of the innocents they simultaneously instill that same terror in the Muslims passively going along who dare not speak up against their fanatical brothers acting out the atrocities of Mohammad. This method of spreading Islam has been the strategy of Islamists from the first days of this religion. The objective of creating Sharia law and the killing of infidels, the worldwide conquest of all nations, and the establishment of a caliphate drive this movement.
Once the terror is established by the fanatics the road is clear for the passive Muslims to make their move by infiltration and non-assimilation into countries primarily of another persuasion. Relying on the altruism and fear of their victims, mobs of Muslims take over by majority as in the town of Poleville Michigan. It is equivalent to a mopping up operation after the blitzkrieg of the fanatics. This follow up movement must be reinforced by periodic acts of violence and terror to reinforce the followers belief that the movement is inevitable.
Americans and many others have not wised up to this approach and have excused the followers as deserving of innocence. The taking over of pockets of formerly non-muslim areas proves otherwise.
If you couple this approach with a willingness to lie to promote Islam you have a potent objective that can only be stopped if it is recognized as the devious monstrosity it is. The intellectual defense of claiming islamaphobia when “innocent followers” are accused of compliance to this spread of Islam works well in a country willing to give the benefit of the doubt and turn the other cheek .
This war is a different war than those of the past. It is not a war of identified enemies with uniforms and national loyalty. It is a war of subversives willing to connive and infiltrate, perform suicidal carnage and simultaneously slither into the population of the unsuspecting in two different forms. One is the fanatic and one is the follower but both have the same objective and only perform differently to obtain this goal.
The term radicalized has real meaning when the follower becomes the fanatic. Passively infiltrating and avoiding assimilation is a more subdued method so those who want to speed up the process and inspire the followers to comply become who we call “ radicalized” which means they are now of the fanatic class and will do violence to intimidate and strike terror.
So what is to be done in such a war? First identify the strategy for what it is and realize how attitudes and mores are affecting our ability to counteract the movement. Calling the followers innocent is a major mistake. When the followers do not denounce the fanatics you can be sure they are being compliant. How many Muslims did you see condemn the killings in Paris?
This logically leads to the need to identify and root out those who are plotting against the people who are innocent. The source of propaganda is wherever the notion of a caliphate and Muslim dominance is taught. These centers whether in America or the Middle East or the Far East must be targeted as seeds of conquest and infiltrated and monitored and/or destroyed. Hiding behind the “sacredness” of a religious temple or sanctuary is only another tool the true Muslims hide behind just as they hide behind women and children in battle.
Once the enemy knows we are onto their game, the game is over. When they talk we know they lie. When they seek peace we know they seek dominance. When they claim innocence we know they only use a different method to overtake us. When they cry discrimination, we simply tell them we discriminate against all criminal behavior. We need to give no quarter to this enemy that is doing everything it can to overtake us. They think they are being clever but the identification of their methods and connivance puts us in the position of strength they fear. Once they know that we know what they are up to, trepidation will begin, doubt will spread and the cleverness they were sure was undecipherable will disappear. Know your enemy is the first requirement of victory.
For the answer, everyone should see yesterday's Fox (Nov. 17) Megyn Kelly interview with Morten Storm, the Danish once-dedicated member of Al-Qaeda who was turned by the CIA to be a spy.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/11/17...
I also refer those interested to http://www.exmuslim.org, which is very illuminating.