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Ayn Rand versus conservatives

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
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Since so much of Galt's Gulch Online content has become conservative headline aggregation posting and commentary over the last several months, let's discuss what Ayn Rand thought of conservatives and conservativism. She put forth quite a bit of commentary on the subject, particularly after Atlas Shrugged came out.

To put it bluntly, she considered conservatives as big a danger to this country as she did liberals/progressives, considering both leading the country down a path towards statism, socialism, anti-capitalism, and most importantly-anti-freedom. Following is just one quote, there are a number:

“Conservatives”

Objectivists are not “conservatives.” We are radicals for capitalism; we are fighting for that philosophical base which capitalism did not have and without which it was doomed to perish . . .

Politics is based on three other philosophical disciplines: metaphysics, epistemology and ethics—on a theory of man’s nature and of man’s relationship to existence. It is only on such a base that one can formulate a consistent political theory and achieve it in practice. When, however, men attempt to rush into politics without such a base, the result is that embarrassing conglomeration of impotence, futility, inconsistency and superficiality which is loosely designated today as “conservatism.” . . .

Today’s culture is dominated by the philosophy of mysticism (irrationalism)—altruism—collectivism, the base from which only statism can be derived; the statists (of any brand: communist, fascist or welfare) are merely cashing in on it—while the “conservatives” are scurrying to ride on the enemy’s premises and, somehow, to achieve political freedom by stealth. It can’t be done.

The Objectivist Newsletter

“Choose Your Issues,”
The Objectivist Newsletter, Jan, 1962, 1

So What Do You Think Conservatives


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry to leave part of this hanging. There is no such thing as a free market except perhaps a neighborhood yard sale. The famous laissez faire nous or leave me alone phrase has never existed in in practice. Business is and has always been under control of the Government to one extent or another. That is why it was so easy to fiddle the regulations and put all those small banks out of business in 2008. I have no idea where you could find a free market on the planet? Anyone?
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    From the Libertarian Party platform: " The Constitution and Bill of Rights shall not be suspended even during time of war."
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The answer to you dilemma is misplacing and misdefining their positions in the political spectrum. Properly defined and placed there is no, are no problem in sorting out a lot of seeming contradictions,

    As Rand said when you think you have a contradiction check your premises one or more of them will be wrong.

    First off the center as you were no doubt taught is the center of the left not the true center of political discourse. That would be the Constitution.

    On the left the Democrats are the left wing of the left and primarily socialist statist/corporatists. the Republicans for the most part including their majority and their leadership are are the right wing OF THE left and primarily socialist corporatist/statists.

    Both of them believe in control of people by Government.

    The Constitution is the constant int he center the pivot point - used or not.

    Opposed to the Republicans and the Democrats who together form what I call the Government party are people who believe

    Citizens control Government as their temporary servants

    The two opposites are Government Control and Citizen Control. We have the first and do not have the second. Since since 1913.

    Your position is somewhere in the middle something like JFK who was an economic conservative and liberal in most other areas.

    The term used by the left is bi-conceptualism meaning you see and agree with part of one concept and disagree with another. Makes you a target for both. This is where two other terms come up bi-partisanship and cross-partisanship and the notion can't we all get along. No we can't and we shouldn't.

    But the arrangement is such you think you have only two choices. You don't and are not limited to left or right. I

    The opposite of your dilemma is since the candidates at the controlled or State Economics end of the spectrum are all all pandering to the religious and secular left on social and moral issues. Neither one of the recognizes your position as valid only as a hunting ground for votes.

    Now look around and see who or what philosophy might allow you the one thing that's missing in both parts of the Government Coalition.

    You don't get to think for yourself . No independent thought and conclusions and no freedom of choice.

    Where might you find that situation. Libertarians? Some of the Splinter parties. discussions here in the Gulch and other forums but you will never find it with the Rino Controlled Republicans nor the Democrats. It isn't allowed don't you know? Not cricket.

    Last sentence using the above model or construct leads you to where you are at but with less confusion and less chance of being co-opted but what in fact is The Left Government Over People.

    When in doubt check premises do your research, ask questions. Also For any question another good Rand Quote. There are three answers. Right, Wrong, and Compromise which makes a total of two Wrong and one Right answer.

    Congratulations you are almost there.

    I'm not a Libertarian myself I'm a Constitutionalist. Not a party but a belief.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If I wished to support any R or D candidates, it would make my choice harder, since the candidates at the free-market end of the spectrum are all pandering to the religious right on social and moral issues.

    Since I plan to once again vote for the Libertarian candidate (which I have done since 1972), my choice is already easy.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'll give you an example. A Conservative originally one who is power or part of the group in power wants to make change if at all slowly always adhering to the letter of the law of the time..

    They entrench and fortify and defend much as the liberals are doing now for they are liberal in one sense but the NEW Neo conservatives in the other.

    Once entrenched with such protections as controlling who can be a candidate on a ballot and how votes are measured and counted they are smug, dumb and happy.

    Along comes someone of more liberal view than their present law or voting regulations and says. Let's emulate the Army and the Air Force who will ask after a target evaluation. "Are they fortified and entrenched or just clustered in a target rich environment fire sack - Feursach and is it the schwerpunkt the center of their defenses.. If I have the German correctly spelt? How best may we attack?"

    We then ask what is our equivalent of a fuel Air bomb. After some thought the outsiders realize they have built their own in house destruction of an IED FAE (love those initials) and named the Hillary Mark II. The only question is how to set it off?

    Which answers itself. Just ask it questions.

    The bomb explodes and the well entrenched fortified group in power safe and snug in their fire sack existence are no more. The schwerpunk is a vacuum the teeter and the totter collapse.

    Then it's a race as to who takes over and typicall they guess what. Fill the fire sack for yet another go round destruction.

    Reasoning that out after being cognizant of the facts in evidence or facts on the ground cut my problem solving to a find a fuze and light it.

    Now I have real faith in my abilities.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would skip the firs part and stick with "I am then determine the second half. Once I recognized the validity of " I am" the origin of the thought other than my mind didn't matter. I am became the start point." What is my value I learned in book keeping for FFA projects. The instructor said where is the value of your time? "Sir it had no value except on the days indicated for I had nothing else I could have been doing that merited a measurement of value. there for while it may not have been profit it was certainly not a loss."

    I did get an "A" on the book keeping portion and the next year took the elective class and learned double entry but never forgot the lesson of time with no value. From which comes the idea of don't waste time even if it's learning slide rules the year before computers or belt mounted pocket calculators became available.

    But I still am unable to place a value on reading AS except as ' more valuable than whatever else I could have been doing.'

    Conservatively speaking the value of objectivism is 'without measure.'
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I met the actor who played the role of Data a Spock like character in many ways. He explained he role as some one who was not allowed to show emotion ...my answer was "Except through others." "Finally, some gets it!"
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All nine of the monotheistic faiths have one in common called by some the Golden Rule. After that it gets varied
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Does that not make your choice easier? That knowledge. Far better than the phony non-partisan positions for judges, sheriffs and dog catchers.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Reasoning is a developed or learned, structured discipline of a conscious mind. The exact definition and characteristics of consciousness and the conditions, components, combinations, etc. from which it arises are all subjects of intense study today in several disciplines--particularly as we've entered into the fringes of artificial intelligence in our computing systems.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fair point, And even the study of her epistemology will still encounter the stiffness of some belief systems, and the emotional challenge of the recognition that there is a belief system there that's filtering evidence.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How do you know that? I don't know that. I don't think the other Objectivists on this site know that.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But james, faith in reason is an oxymoron. The two words are opposite in meaning and application.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A hermit is a great example because its the only way morality can be entirely defined by the individual (In Rands Anthem, did not Prometheus leave the group to define his own morality, taking with him only a woman (can't recall her name off the top of my head)), making it subjective, thats my point. A group can have subjective morals (based against another person or group of people) except that their "code" would have to include mainly those things ALL in that group find agreeable and able to liveby.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The moral code of your hermit is not rational and contradicts many objective facts. Morality isn't dependent on interaction with others. This is explained elsewhere in this post.
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