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Ayn Rand versus conservatives

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
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Since so much of Galt's Gulch Online content has become conservative headline aggregation posting and commentary over the last several months, let's discuss what Ayn Rand thought of conservatives and conservativism. She put forth quite a bit of commentary on the subject, particularly after Atlas Shrugged came out.

To put it bluntly, she considered conservatives as big a danger to this country as she did liberals/progressives, considering both leading the country down a path towards statism, socialism, anti-capitalism, and most importantly-anti-freedom. Following is just one quote, there are a number:

“Conservatives”

Objectivists are not “conservatives.” We are radicals for capitalism; we are fighting for that philosophical base which capitalism did not have and without which it was doomed to perish . . .

Politics is based on three other philosophical disciplines: metaphysics, epistemology and ethics—on a theory of man’s nature and of man’s relationship to existence. It is only on such a base that one can formulate a consistent political theory and achieve it in practice. When, however, men attempt to rush into politics without such a base, the result is that embarrassing conglomeration of impotence, futility, inconsistency and superficiality which is loosely designated today as “conservatism.” . . .

Today’s culture is dominated by the philosophy of mysticism (irrationalism)—altruism—collectivism, the base from which only statism can be derived; the statists (of any brand: communist, fascist or welfare) are merely cashing in on it—while the “conservatives” are scurrying to ride on the enemy’s premises and, somehow, to achieve political freedom by stealth. It can’t be done.

The Objectivist Newsletter

“Choose Your Issues,”
The Objectivist Newsletter, Jan, 1962, 1

So What Do You Think Conservatives


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The party in power is statist made up of a mix of statist corporatists and corporatist statists and a few odd after thought union leaders. They are hardly parties plural when the share the exact same major beliefs.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do understand. Understanding is not based on the threats of mysticism.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm the kind that prefers to conserve (keep, preserve, revere) what we should all value, the great equalizer - the Constitution and its Bill of Rights.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Comes from describing others by first looking in a mirror. If you were James Carville and using your reflection to describe the opposition what other word would come to mind?
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Roosevelt vs Wilke turned out not to be as clear cut as what had appeared. Wilke turned out to be a me-tooer. Ayn Rand learned her lesson. Today's politicians usually count on how many they can fool without ever committing themselves. It's an art form.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I have no problem with being both. First I look at life as it is objectively. Evaluate my range of practical options. Then I apply them to my particular postion of allegiance. Which happens to be neither left nor right but Center . I look at the former rule book or hand book for citizens and invariably find an answer.

    Of course it would help if the rest of the country were not all trying to play left field with a catchers mitt.l
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes you need a word. Without that there is no concept and nothing to think in terms of when dealing with principles. Descriptions that never land on the mental concrete of a word to symbolize the idea are not concepts. Much of the battle is in the formulation of valid concepts in terms of essentials, not the arbitrary package deals, floating abstractions and other fallacies intended to prevent rational thought by obscuring essentials and their relation to reality.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Conservatism dictionary slow to make change and then only by legal means. It' is the home of those well entrenched in power. In their castle behind their moats.

    Liberals want to make change fast by any means needed and why not they are the outsiders.

    So which group are the true conservatives today?

    The rest is just yesterday's news and a bit of shopworn history.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Bi-Conceptualism. Seeing both sides of an issue or question at the same time and being partially in favor of a bit of each at the same time. JFK for example was a fiscal conservative and a liberal in most other areas

    The approach is to try and sway one to support one side rather than the other in the belief that only one side is correct and the 'middle' is automatically wrong.

    A Secular progressive will recognize only liberal (correct) and conservative (false) and is unable to see any other viewpoint but tries to recruit the bi-conceptual to their side arguing they have the most merit.

    They will not see nor notice an objectivist who views the world in different terns.

    Conservatives the same but the opposite direction.

    Both define liberal and conservative politically and forget the original definitions which gives those who understand the entire range an advantage.

    they also do not use the correct definition of center preferring to define it as the center of their world view

    Of the two the so called conservatives are much more aware of that range of choices than are the liberals. One is practical the other practical. One believes in jobs done the other in jobs talked about. Forgetting that without the doers the talkers will swallow their tongues and die in the midst of their own words. A menu is not a meal.

    Short version.....
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  • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ewv; you're right. This continual battle of definitions, sophistry, and what Rand called 'semantic pretzels' (I love that phrase) is really quite tiring. But there are concepts behind each definition that are often more easily explainable and sometimes even better for discussions.
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  • -1
    Posted by jtrikakis 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There will come a time when you understand. I just ask you to consider that time won't be too late for you.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All I meant to point out is that the Roosevelt VS Wilke contest was more clear-cut than today's mish-mash. The last truly clear-cut election was of George Washington. He was exactly what he said he was. One thing you can rely on about elections is that even the most brilliant of us can be fooled.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Faith is the opposite of reason. Please take your gratuitous Christian apologetics somewhere else. Your faith in the supernatural is not a basis for discussion and detracts from discussion. This is a forum for Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Who would rationally want any kind of flying ghosts, including the old man with the long white beard floating on a cloud.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    But today the word "capitalism" is even more smeared than it was 50 years ago. You have to more careful than ever to explain what you are talking about and that is not crony fascism.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Cynically dishonest manipulation of both yourself and others is not "necessary" and does not improve life. Please do not associate your ideas with Ayn Rand. They are even worse than Pragmatism.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Blind faith is a self-contradictory concept. It is a strawman argument. Noone has faith in the unknown. There must be some level of attribution or description - however crude. The real question to be answered is whether or not the concept one places their belief in can be logically explained or verified. That is the real question.

    The real tragedy is how many on this forum have repeatedly and often maligned faith without having any real idea of what it is. Faith is the belief that propels one's self to action without a sure knowledge of the future. Faith is the core of the entrepreneur and inventor: they want to believe that something better than what they have is out there, but without the action to step into the unknown - and the risk of failure - they are just like everyone else who prefer the well-lighted room of comfort.

    Reason helps us determine what already happened and why. Reason deals with the past. Faith deals with what may be. Faith deals with the future. They are neither exclusive nor in opposition. Together, they allow one to determine where one has been and chart a course for where one may yet go.
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  • -2
    Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The block grant idea is politically a whole lot more feasible and achievable. It's a lot better than doing nothing and a whole heck of a lot more than increasing the burden of welfare and socialism. It's a step in the right direction we should recognize and applaud. We didn't adopt social welfare policies all in one fell swoop - they've been the camel's nose in the tent since Woodrow Wilson 100 years ago. It's just not realistic to expect that the political establishment is going to go "cold turkey" with respect to their entitlement addiction.

    Let's at least get moving in the right direction. The ideal is off on the horizon behind us. Right now we need to be more concerned with the cliff dead ahead.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It isn't a matter of compromising principles. It's a matter of how to win converts: you don't do it by aggravating every person you come into contact with by telling them every way you think they're wrong. All that does it put their hackles up and you get the door slammed in your face. Trust me, I've been there and done that.

    People don't change because they are forced to. They change and adapt new ways of thinking when they understand how it will benefit them.

    Think of it this way: do you walk into a party with new people you've never met and immediately launch into a tirade at the top of your voice about the evils of socialism? Only if you're trying to never get yourself invited to a party again. No. What you do is make small talk with a few people and find commonalities. Then when the subject comes up, you present your viewpoint. Best of all, you let the logic of the argument do all the talking.

    Making enemies is pathetically easy. Making allies is much more difficult, but rewarding.
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